CA+ update...

[Rapture]

Update 04/13/08:
I've been doing QA testing on features that were introduced for the CQL builds. Trying to test every scenario will take a while... I've patched a couple bugs so far. I've removed the qccx hacks. Some of the CQL features will need to be altered for pickup games (i.e., auto pause when someone lags out).

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Hello,

This is not meant to be an attack on CAx in anyway. So, please don't take it that way. R00k did contribute with testing and some ideas for CA+. I noticed he gave me "reference material" (What ever I meant by that.. I forgot lol) for the eye cam.

I've uploaded the last version of CA+ that I worked on for the CQL in 2004...
CA+ got a bad rap because of some bugs. Those bugs were fixed but the version(s) on the servers were outdated.

At this time I'm thinking of cleaning up some code and making it open source.

I wouldn't be surprised if CAx uses some of these ideas (if they aren't implemented yet)... Since some of my ideas are in CAx

Remember these changes are from 2004 and I'm sure the Q1 community has changed its ideas of what it wants for CA.

Change log from the CQL updates:

CQL 1.4
=======
-Moved a conditional statement that would allow the client to be an observer before they finished dying.
-Player auto-respawns after they are killed.
-Added back client viewpoint fixes when they don't have a model but now check if they are tracking someone (it would mess up the eye cam mode).
-New alias system which only sends command aliases when the client does not have them.
-Match auto-pauses when an active player lags out.
-New ghosting feature to restore players if they disconnnect. Use 'ghostcode' to get your code and 'ghost' to enter it.
-Commands 'matchstop' and 'matchstart' used to pause and unpause the match.
-The message "is currently lagged" only printed for obeservers. This has been fixed to show only for clients in the arena.

CQL 1.3
=======
-Removed bot detection code since it's obsolete. This will save some
processing and net cycles on the server. Admins are encouraged to
run a ProQuake "cheat free" (FYI, no game can be cheat free Mr. JPG esp. an open source game) server.
-Added more damage statistics between rounds.
-Truly fixed the "firing after round is over" bug in CA.
-Improved all stats’ interfaces.
-Added kill stats which only show at the end of the match.
-Removed body queue code.
Colors don't work in GLQuake (id bug) and I never liked them in CA.
-The end of match report stats has been greatly improved.
-New eye cam mode.
Use +attack to cycle through the modes.
(Thanks to Rookie for the eye cam reference material)
-I rewrote the observer code.
Now it uses less code and is much faster over the standard CA code.

CQL 1.2
=======
-Added 'scores' back to the 'command' list.
-Removed 'dmgstatus' since it was being exploited.
-Per round damage points are printed at the end.

CQL 1.1
=======
-"Disabled" some more cvars that would allow clients to see through walls.
-'Scores' impulse need to be changed to 68 since impulse 69 is used for the
previous weapon feature.
-Performance is now off by default in carena.cfg.
-No longer prints how much health your opponent had when they killed you.
-Changed damage system.
It now adds up the points at the end of the round. No longer centerprints
information. No longer makes a sound when a frag is earned.
-Removed player identification.
People found a way to exploit it and now it's gone for good.

CQL 1.0
=======
-Further improved random spawn code.
Tests show that the spawn locations are much more random. Reason why teams spawn on the red armor side of DM3 more often is because there are more spawn locations on that side (duh). I feel good about this update. =)
-Auto-removal of trigger_changelevel since it's not needed. Did this in past
mods but forgot to do this in CA+.
-Code clean ups: removed unused code and removed more lines of precached files that are not used or are precached else where (id bug).
-Fixed buttons and doors.
Due to me improperly implementing synchronized time with the server ticrate, some maps would crash the server. This bug has been here for years and I guess it goes to show you CA'ers only play DM3 (sigh).
-Rocket damage is random again. If I have interest, in the future, this will be
configurable. (Random damage is not a good design decision, IMHO).
-Added new maps: kikdm3 and x-pulse2.
-Added ProQuake 3.50 server-side variables to the autoexec.cfg for you admins who are too lazy to read the manual.
-Getting familiar with QC again. Haha.

[omix2]

I prefer this mod so much over caX, to the point that I've completely stopped playing CA because caX is boring / stale / old and I want to be playing ca+.

[Baker]

At this time I'm thinking of cleaning up some code and making it open source.

Please do. Quake *really* needs the mods to be open source.

If you are a server operator and want to do something trivial, if the mod isn't open source you are really crippled.

I mean, let's say you want something as simple as a custom message or to alter the warp menu, you are at the mercy of a mod developer to enact even the most trivial changes.

Thank you for updating CA+. CAx was spawned solely because CA+ crashed on most maps and, well, it is kinda boring if everyone spawns in the same place for 9 rounds in a row.

Here was my attempt to contact you in 2006 when some of us were desperately trying to try some new ideas with Clan Arena and CA+ was causing us grief.

http://www.quakeone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523

[Baker]

By the way, probably the #1 feature missing from CA+ is the ability to see the team score total in the HUD in ProQuake and Qrack.

For instance, in CAx and CRMOD and other mods utilizing the feature, a ProQuake client will see 4 (Red) and 3 (Blue) if the red team has won 4 rounds and the blue team has won 3 rounds. In CA+, it will show the players with highest scores so it is more difficult to keep track of the scores that matter.

/This feature utilitizes the pq_teamscores engine addition feature in ProQuake.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

dust off your lg if ca+ becomes mainstream again

[R00k]

Hey Rap! Long time no see! About time you got here.

Actually, CAx was started around August 2003.

Title : CQLA v1.0 Challenge Quake League Arena
Filename : cqla100.zip
Version : 1.00
Date : Aug-27-03

I was asked by West who headed the CQL, to add some features he wanted to CA for an up comming tournament. One of the main features was CAMLOCK, which disallowed players from observing opponents during a match. His main concern was people using microphone/telephony to tell teammates where the enemy was.
I told him to contact the author of CA+ as I had no avenue to implement his features. After a few weeks of reciprocal emails, I was told that Rapture was MIA, (I'm sure busy in college at this time). So I started making my own version.
This was not a upgrade of ClanArena by mungo; it was a clean source restart. I had to implement "ideas" from CA+ because at that time it had to be compatible. After several beta tests - after several weeks (thanks Monkey/clan Bizarro!), there were still crippling bugs that didnt meet the deadline for the tourney, and Rapture caught wind. I sent Rap the feature requests & src for the CQL mod, and soon after, CA+ CQL was born, CAx thus went on a shelf for 3 years. Though If I remember correctly, the CQL tourney either never happened or was a complete flop And thus alot of servers never upgraded to version 1.4

For Omix, the differences in which you say you prefer CA+ over CAx (actually I got the x by turning the + on its side btw) are simple values/timings for certain weapons. This has been a heated debate, and when CA+ started alot of the oldschoolers complained how their rockets were "nerfed" etc. :/ Though, I understand in a situation where u have a plethora of ammo, that there needs to be some restrictions. This is why I added linear (low) splash damage as an option for server admins. As for the Shaft?

[Rapture]

Replied in order: :d

Please do. Quake *really* needs the mods to be open source.

If you are a server operator and want to do something trivial, if the mod isn't open source you are really crippled.

I mean, let's say you want something as simple as a custom message or to alter the warp menu, you are at the mercy of a mod developer to enact even the most trivial changes.

....

Sorry, I don't remember if I got your email or contacted you. I was notified about bugs and feature requests for CQL... I made the updates but those versions didn't get on the other servers.

By the way, probably the #1 feature missing from CA+ is the ability to see the team score total in the HUD in ProQuake and Qrack.

...

Thanks for the update. I will add that to my list of things to do.

Hey Rap! Long time no see! About time you got here.

Actually, CAx was started around August 2003.

I was asked by West who headed the CQL, to add some features he wanted to CA for an up comming tournament. One of the main features was CAMLOCK, which disallowed players from observing opponents during a match. His main concern was people using microphone/telephony to tell teammates where the enemy was.
I told him to contact the author of CA+ as I had no avenue to implement his features. After a few weeks of reciprocal emails, I was told that Rapture was MIA, (I'm sure busy in college at this time). So I started making my own version.
This was not a upgrade of ClanArena by mungo; it was a clean source restart. I had to implement "ideas" from CA+ because at that time it had to be compatible. After several beta tests - after several weeks (thanks Monkey/clan Bizarro!), there were still crippling bugs that didnt meet the deadline for the tourney, and Rapture caught wind. I sent Rap the feature requests & src for the CQL mod, and soon after, CA+ CQL was born, CAx thus went on a shelf for 3 years. Though If I remember correctly, the CQL tourney either never happened or was a complete flop And thus alot of servers never upgraded to version 1.4

For Omix, the differences in which you say you prefer CA+ over CAx (actually I got the x by turning the + on its side btw) are simple values/timings for certain weapons. This has been a heated debate, and when CA+ started alot of the oldschoolers complained how their rockets were "nerfed" etc. :/ Though, I understand in a situation where u have a plethora of ammo, that there needs to be some restrictions. This is why I added linear (low) splash damage as an option for server admins. As for the Shaft?

Hey R00kie! Sorry I'm late! Now I remember more of the CQL story... I don't want you to get the wrong idea. CA+ CQL is not an offset of your code; I just updated CA+ with features that were requested at that time. I looked at your code for the eye cam. I had to rewrite the observer code to get a basic eye cam to work in CA+. My code is different (basically a rebuild of classic CA).

At first, when CA+ began, I initially started with the original CA because I wanted bug fixes and basic features. As time went on, it just needed to be rebuilt piece by piece.
(Note: mungo was using an outdated version of the original id QC code. Plus, the last id QC code release has many bugs and needs many tweaks for proper net play :d)

People like different mods for different reasons. Hatings vs. Mtown etc...
From a players stand point values and timings may be different. Under the hood, there's more going on though. One mods implementation (functionality and speed of code) of feature A might be better than another. Everyone has the right to an opinion and I had to learn not to take it personal working on mods. I do know that when you work on a mod that your hard work usually gets unnoticed. The user is usually focused on what’s wrong. The developers are really an important part for keeping a gaming community going.

Also, just want to make it clear that I’m not trying to create division or get everyone to jump off the CAx boat. I noticed Q1 is still active and wanted to update CA+.

If there’s any other features / fixes for CA+ please let me know in here. I am starting to compile a list of things to do.

[Baker]

just want to make it clear that I’m not trying to create division or get everyone to jump off the CAx boat. I noticed Q1 is still active and wanted to update CA+.

Relax :d

Diversity is the key to a healthy game. Different preferences, different points of view, different ideas.

The developers are really an important part for keeping a gaming community going.

Absolutely.

[R00k]

I know you didnt use any code, kinda wish you had though cause mungo's code is brutally ugly. I offered what i had, for anything you could have used.
I didt create CAx as a challenge to CA+, but a continuation from where u left off , since the source wasnt open.
CAx code has progressed 10x from it's start. Bam and SlotZero have helped immensely.
For those of you who dont know him, Rapture pretty much got me started coding in QuakeC.
I remmeber countless hours on ICQ trading code examples... and asking stupid questions
speaking of which, here's a quote I have kept in my quakeC folder from rap, this is kinda out of date, but true to the point.

You will never get the satisfaction you deserve from quake players.
Everyone has an opinion. Everyone thinks they are right. Not everyone knows how difficult it is to really program something.
You have to do it because you enjoy it, not for praise, not for popularity, because you will never truly get that.
When you do get praise or popularity, it fades fast.
You add a new feature or change something and the hate cycle starts again.

I think though that that statement was rendered during the MTOWN days, prior to CA+.
I do consider the player's opinion. I usually listen to what they say, not how they say it. Each time a hair is split, I dont make it a standard, I just create another admin option so that the hate is passed to the admin, not me You really cant blame the mod if someone sets up a server with maxspeed 350, sv_accelerate 12, sv_friction 5, sv_gravity 750 etc... same goes with the settings within the mod. Sometimes I wish I just named the mod ClanArena, so that if a certain server had set everything all wacky that the hate would be at that particular server, not the mod itself

[omix2]

I still say you destroyed CA+ and created a monster, and I'm sure there's people who agree with me. It's a slow, high spam, high splash, low skill mod.

[Rampage]

I still say you destroyed CA+ and created a monster, and I'm sure there's people who agree with me. It's a slow, high spam, high splash, low skill mod.

Yet it has kept Quake alive..

[omix2]

Yet it has kept Quake alive..

Yeah but when he changed all of the gameplay physics and the splash radius that wasn't him doing bug fixes. That was him changing the mod to his own liking. I don't think anyone asked for that, I was pretty satisfied with the mod and so were a lot of people. It died because the only server with it (chi.nailed) went down, and then everyone had to deal with playing on yellow 5s shithole with an even shittier mod.

So no, in my opinion Ca X killed off CA more than it kept it alive.

[omix2]

Furthermore, I believe your machinations helped as well. What I mean by this is that someone's desire to play is what drives them to load up quake.

When baker, yellow 5, phenom, and r00k sit in a chatroom deciding whats good for everyone, what servers theyre gonna shut down and keep up, and how they're gonna change the mod to their liking, no one wins but baker yellow5 and r00k. In reality those of you at the top went the way of the US politicians, you did what you wanted and really didn't care what anyone else thinks. The evidence is in the numbers, I look at how many people play nightly compared to chi.nailed.org, and unlike many on here I still remember how many people quit because of caX. Its a lot more than you think. Try to remember some names from people who played... I bet you'll remember shitloads of people playing last year that no longer play. Most who quit from the transition between chi.nailed and rage.quakeone.

This is evident by how few people are really playing nowadays. Now imagine if you had left CA+ alone, did some bug fixes and let it be, put in features everyone wanted but still let it be, and then kept yellow 5 from ever getting admin at Rage and making it his own little ego playground.

People will still be loading up their quake because they want to play, not because the only option they have is to play on the same boring shithole mod that no one ever liked beside newbies that can aim down with their rocket launcher.

I think if this guy played CaX he would be disgusted, like I was the moment I connected to a CaX server.

[Baker]

I don't think anyone asked for that, I was pretty satisfied with the mod and so were a lot of people.

When CAx was being cleaned up by Bam at the original bomber.ironrocket.com server to run custom maps, the issue of damage came up quickly. Some people thought it was silly to have CAx have different damage calculations than CTF, CRMOD and everything else.

The idea with running custom maps was to attract new players.

Players who liked CA+ style play generally were the ones who only liked DM3, and there was an established popular CA+ server.

Why would a server being setup to attract new players with some diversity be a bad thing when there was also popular CA+ server?

Do you realize how ridiculous your logic is?

It died because the only server with it (chi.nailed) went down, and then everyone had to deal with playing on ...

And how exactly did CAx have anything to do with CHI going down?

And when CHI went down, suddenly quake.crmod.com and deathmatch became active again. Team deathmatch had been like patient that refused to be revived until CHI went down. For like 4 months, Turtlevan hit up people for DM on every server every evening.

So how was that bad?

[Baker]

When baker, yellow 5, phenom, and r00k sit in a chatroom deciding whats good for everyone, what servers theyre gonna shut down and keep up, and how they're gonna change the mod to their liking, no one wins but baker yellow5 and r00k. In reality those of you at the top went the way of the US politicians, you did what you wanted and really didn't care what anyone else thinks.

Would you and Rampage like to come? Anyone willing to step to the plate is a good thing. (Prepare for a sharp learning curve, there are a lot of constraints on things, as you will find out).

I care about everyone, even people who have different preferences than my own or disagree with me.