CA+ update...

[Frenzy]

I notice nobody acknowledges the fact (when I say nobody, I'm referring to Baker, Rook, Sole, anybody on the development team) that Yellow-5 did ruin a lot of players want to play the game. You all just overlook the fact that he ruined a portion of the community with his admin-ego. And Yellow-5, it's nothing personal, simply facts.

[R00k]

Yeah but when he changed all of the gameplay physics and the splash radius that wasn't him doing bug fixes. That was him changing the mod to his own liking. I don't think anyone asked for that, I was pretty satisfied with the mod and so were a lot of people. It died because the only server with it (chi.nailed) went down, and then everyone had to deal with playing on yellow 5s shithole with an even shittier mod.

So no, in my opinion Ca X killed off CA more than it kept it alive.

"Man you are one pathetic loser!", comes to mind when i think about your attitude. What you should do Omi is host a server and run CA+, or install CAx and configure it with the same low splash damage. I didnt change any physics. Its standard id's progs.dat! Same physics as CRMOD, CRCTF, and CA+, unless ca+ tweaked that. The rocket damage isnt flat 100, the lg damage hasnt been lessened. Are we gonna call JPGrossman and tell him to nerf CRMOD cause CAx has upset alot of people?

[Baker]

"Man you are one pathetic loser!", comes to mind when i think about your attitude.

Heheheh, you are trying to reason with him.

Try using non-reason. It works better with Omi :d :d

/But things would be so boring without him, haha

[Rampage]

Would you and Rampage like to come? Anyone willing to step to the plate is a good thing. (Prepare for a sharp learning curve, there are a lot of constraints on things, as you will find out).

I care about everyone, even people who have different preferences than my own or disagree with me.

What's this got to do with me?

I never complained about the mod.

On the contrary, I rebutted with the fact it has kept CA living longer than it should.

[Rampage]

The evidence is in the numbers, I look at how many people play nightly compared to chi.nailed.org, and unlike many on here I still remember how many people quit because of caX. Its a lot more than you think. Try to remember some names from people who played... I bet you'll remember shitloads of people playing last year that no longer play. Most who quit from the transition between chi.nailed and rage.quakeone.

This is evident by how few people are really playing nowadays. Now imagine if you had left CA+ alone, did some bug fixes and let it be, put in features everyone wanted but still let it be, and then kept yellow 5 from ever getting admin at Rage and making it his own little ego playground.

People will still be loading up their quake because they want to play, not because the only option they have is to play on the same boring shithole mod that no one ever liked beside newbies that can aim down with their rocket launcher.

These are normative statements, and based completely on your own opinion without much empirical data to support any of these statements..

Yes the number of Quake players has gone down significantly, but did it lower when chi.nailed died... or did it lower years before that?

Think about all the clans/players that have left over time, I can go on and on listing teams.. from TuSa, CD, AM, xUx, ANTI (hero, airwalk), GDI, nwo, GuN, original iov, original DOOM, L1, in10sity, tem, many random CA clans.. Almost all 3wave/CTF players with the exception of a few that transitioned over to CA.. Kwong.. even blueberry.. the list goes on and on my friend.. and it doesn't stop..

The player base has and always will drastically diminish because the learning curve is simply too steep for new players in certain mods and they will either escape to RQ or quit after a short while..

So the question begs, did players like nate.. riot.. iov.. in10 and so on.. really leave because of a simple transition in mods? Or did they simply quit because of an ongoing trend?

Mentally it appears players have grown tiresome of Quake, moved onto new games, became immersed in their private lives .. got a job.. moved out.. etc

I am personally in the same stage myself at 22.. i come on maybe once or twice a week at night for 15-20 min but clearly have no dedication due to important aspects of my own personal development.. if I am going to blame admins, mod differentiation, player trash talk, or the community.. none of these factors would be a deterrent

This is in no way evidence either, and merely my own personal input on what I've witnessed over many years of playing

[Baker]

I notice nobody acknowledges the fact (when I say nobody, I'm referring to Baker, Rook, Sole, anybody on the development team) that Yellow-5 did ruin a lot of players want to play the game. You all just overlook the fact that he ruined a portion of the community with his admin-ego. And Yellow-5, it's nothing personal, simply facts.

Actually, you are making it personal with Yellow, Frenzy.

If you want to be fair, Rage became so popular the challenges and demands of admin'ing the server had to be enormous. Everyone wanted everything, and that doesn't even count the problems.

This was amplified by the ENORMOUS pressures and DEMANDS by several different parties.

I personally do think you are being unfair in bringing it up over and over ... in my personal opinion. Why is Yellow the only person not entitled to make mistakes? But this also ignores the fact that everything was NOT Yellow's fault. Some of the "incidents" that happened at Rage that looked really bad were done by higher up the server operation chain than Yellow. What's he supposed to do about that?

What I mean is this ... you had more of a vested interest in Rage than most people did since you ran tournaments. So the server was more personal to you, maybe even a part of your identity since had you failed you would have been disappointed.

I'm not saying this was bad or good, I'm just saying it was a personal experience for you. For me, the same sequence of events was an impersonal experience for me after initially being frustrated. This is because I understood what was going on, said what I felt was going on and recognized that one way or another sometimes mistakes have to happen for people to learn, although it sucks seeing it and not being able to do anything about it.

There were a lot of people who were emotionally involved and making mistakes during the Rage thing. It isn't fair to hold someone to a standard that could not possibly have been met, especially with the huge number of interested parties lobbying this, that and everything else. Seriously.

Hindsight is always 20/20. And maybe not even 20/20 with Rage, because there were many divergent opinions ... even today!

[Rapture]

I know you didnt use any code, kinda wish you had though cause mungo's code is brutally ugly. I offered what i had, for anything you could have used.

At first, when CA+ began, I initially started with the original CA because I wanted bug fixes and basic features. As time went on, it just needed to be rebuilt piece by piece.
(Note: mungo was using an outdated version of the original id QC code. Plus, the last id QC code release has many bugs and needs many tweaks for proper net play :d)

[Rapture]

I think though that that statement was rendered during the MTOWN days, prior to CA+.
I do consider the player's opinion. I usually listen to what they say, not how they say it. Each time a hair is split, I dont make it a standard, I just create another admin option so that the hate is passed to the admin, not me You really cant blame the mod if someone sets up a server with maxspeed 350, sv_accelerate 12, sv_friction 5, sv_gravity 750 etc... same goes with the settings within the mod. Sometimes I wish I just named the mod ClanArena, so that if a certain server had set everything all wacky that the hate would be at that particular server, not the mod itself

I think it was during the MTOWN days. I updated that mod a lot and people would constantly complain. People from hatings would come and shoot the server down before giving it a chance too. I like to listen to the player if they give a reason why feature A sucks to them. I nuked some features from CA+ because the guys in CQL said they were exploitable. I had no problem with doing that because there were valid reasons.

If the admins are setting the servers up with weird settings, it's time to hard code server cvars!

[Frenzy]

Actually, you are making it personal with Yellow, Frenzy.

If you want to be fair, Rage became so popular the challenges and demands of admin'ing the server had to be enormous. Everyone wanted everything, and that doesn't even count the problems.

This was amplified by the ENORMOUS pressures and DEMANDS by several different parties.

I personally do think you are being unfair in bringing it up over and over ... in my personal opinion. Why is Yellow the only person not entitled to make mistakes? But this also ignores the fact that everything was NOT Yellow's fault. Some of the "incidents" that happened at Rage that looked really bad were done by higher up the server operation chain than Yellow. What's he supposed to do about that?

What I mean is this ... you had more of a vested interest in Rage than most people did since you ran tournaments. So the server was more personal to you, maybe even a part of your identity since had you failed you would have been disappointed.

I'm not saying this was bad or good, I'm just saying it was a personal experience for you. For me, the same sequence of events was an impersonal experience for me after initially being frustrated. This is because I understood what was going on, said what I felt was going on and recognized that one way or another sometimes mistakes have to happen for people to learn, although it sucks seeing it and not being able to do anything about it.

There were a lot of people who were emotionally involved and making mistakes during the Rage thing. It isn't fair to hold someone to a standard that could not possibly have been met, especially with the huge number of interested parties lobbying this, that and everything else. Seriously.

Hindsight is always 20/20. And maybe not even 20/20 with Rage, because there were many divergent opinions ... even today!

Wasn't making it personal at all. Was pointing out the fact that everytime it's brought up in the discussions, a lot of certain people seem to ignore the fact.

And I wasn't supporting rage, as much as I was supporting CAx.

And Slot Zero is an almost perfect example of how to admin a server. Here, I won't single Yellow out, but "certain"*wink*wink* admins did things based on a powertrip. Plain and simple.

Anyhow, I kind of strayed off topic thread, so I'll leave this alone.

[Stung]

I won't interject other than to say if one complies with Yellow-5 when he asserts himself (which is actually rare, he's pretty "libertarian" in the way he runs things as far as I'm concerned), they have nothing to worry about on the whole. This has been my experience, anyway.

[Rampage]

I won't interject other than to say if one complies with Yellow-5 when he asserts himself (which is actually rare, he's pretty "libertarian" in the way he runs things as far as I'm concerned), they have nothing to worry about on the whole. This has been my experience, anyway.

There is no excuse for poor admining, and its affected the entire CA scene on a wide scale.

Server pop has diminished since these little incidents, and the ensuing "forum battles" certainly aren't helping the cause.

Luckily Root was launched, so now you have a choice of both servers;I also love their 5 map rotation to boot.

I think the issue has been dealt with, I haven't seen any problems since the incident.. hopefully we can all get back to our normal lives and maybe .. finally we'll all learn a lesson that talking trash is detrimental to Quake.. then again, it's the internet..

[Stung]

Yes. Internet is a great way for people to sublimate their insecurities. It's a bit ingrained unfortunately.

[Yellow No. 5]

Frenzy, you're a complete tard. With the tourney...you said you ran in for the community, and weren't gonna play. I think you didn't play the first week. Then you started playing...you wallhacked, voice chatted with adrian so he could tell you opponents location, or hid for 5 minutes if you had to to win. Then you'd post the results. "Yup...I picked up another win. I'm ahead everyone!" Alll the decent players said you were a joke, and refused to play as long as you ran the tourney. So everyone stopped playing and the tournies fadded out.

You weaseled your way into getting admin from vis, then acted like a complete cocksucker with it...unless I was there then you acted cool. Everyone hated you. Everyone complained to me. Everyone. I was your pal #1 until I had to de-admin you. Then you spent a solid 2 weeks on the forums. "OMG YELLOW IS RUINING QUAKE!!" I still tried to be cool with you after that, but you're still posting garbage a year later.

So keep posting crap on the forums if that makes you feel like you're winning some power struggle from a years ago. I'm sure you have much more time to do it than I have to respond to it.

[omix2]

Frenzy, you're a complete tard. With the tourney...you said you ran in for the community, and weren't gonna play. I think you didn't play the first week. Then you started playing...you wallhacked, voice chatted with adrian so he could tell you opponents location, or hid for 5 minutes if you had to to win. Then you'd post the results. "Yup...I picked up another win. I'm ahead everyone!" Alll the decent players said you were a joke, and refused to play as long as you ran the tourney. So everyone stopped playing and the tournies fadded out.

You weaseled your way into getting admin from vis, then acted like a complete cocksucker with it...unless I was there then you acted cool. Everyone hated you. Everyone complained to me. Everyone. I was your pal #1 until I had to de-admin you. Then you spent a solid 2 weeks on the forums. "OMG YELLOW IS RUINING QUAKE!!" I still tried to be cool with you after that, but you're still posting garbage a year later.

So keep posting crap on the forums if that makes you feel like you're winning some power struggle from a years ago. I'm sure you have much more time to do it than I have to respond to it.

I'm curious what you have to say about me, since I have always been either the #1 or #2 target of your admin abuse, beside wonton who quit quake - making the DM community even smaller (gj y5) among a few others.

Frenzy wasn't the best admin but you were just as bad. While you might feel high and mighty saying you took nonstop complaints about frenzy, similarly there are and were nonstop complaints about you. Except you're at the top so the complaints about you go unheard of. So what you're saying is frenzy should be de-adminned for complaints but not you. By your own standards you shouldve lost admin over a year ago. You were the reason I started text spamming the servers, because there was no other way of defending myself or getting you back for your ridiculous use of admin.

You have the mentality of its your server and you'll do what you want. Even though rage wasn't supposed to be your personal server, neither is speaknow. You are supposed to be like a public official, not an enforcer of your own rules. And don't even mention that you're paying for it and therefore get to do what you want, because thats bullshit. Many of us would pay to have the #1 quake server run correctly. Unfortunately we have been stuck with cockbags like you slowly stifling and killing the game.

You are part of the problem and always have been since you got power in quake 1. Everyone knows it too.

Oh, and you can't live without it. You NEED THIS yellow 5. Remember me telling you that a year ago when you would ban / mute / and kick me whenever you felt like? You need this. Enjoy, scumbag.

[Yellow No. 5]

I like that you think you have any authority to complain of who you think is "harming quake". Which seems to be every person who spends there time and energy to code, run servers, manage this site, etc of harming quake. Do you actually take yourself seriously when you start threads about what you can do to bring in more players? Do you only remember to take your meds on certain days? If you want to "help quake", follow these simple steps:
1. walk out your front door
2. throw yourself into traffic