Whats left of quake (thats not open source or been remade?)

[gnounc]

We have

the source
the maps source

remade textures
a myriad of engines

i think we have new charactor models...not quite sure how many

new weapon models
new skins

we need sounds..

sooo. is that it? sounds and possibly charactor models?

[Baker]

Textures = no
Models = no
Sounds = no

Most people think graphics and therefore think models and such.

Models ARE a big deal. There are not satisfactory replacement models for any of the monsters, for example.

Sounds are an EVEN bigger deal. The sounds in Quake are exquisitely cohesive and blow away the rest of the Quake series and most other games.

Sounds are very difficult to assemble in a coherent and well-sounding and non-annoying environment. This is part of the reason people can play Quake for hours on end in single player or multiplayer.

Back to models .. the Quake 1 model format is rather difficult to make and animating models is very difficult.

Textures ... the remade textures like the Quake Retexturing Project have several derivative textures and are NOT legally ok for a free remake.

But textures aren't really too much to sweat about in a way, Nexuiz and Open Arena have a huge pool of GPL textures and those aren't hardly the only sources of truly free textures.

It would take some work to convert the textures to the Quake palette, but my argument would be that you don't because you might as well make an extended Quake map format (Half-Life style with support for independent texture palettes, built-in color lit support, hipnotic rotation via origin brushes).

I mean a remade Quake isn't going to look Quakey ... take a look at all the knight animations for instance.

The biggest boon Quake could ever have is the ability to make standalone single player releases or mods and have the multiplayer be essentially free. The latter is rather easy.

Except there would need to be a built-in server in Qrack and for ProQuake server for this to even be worth bothering with.

DarkPlaces simply does not run or does not run properly on too many machines to be a platform client. Qrack would have to be the engine.

What does exist?

1. New weapons models = yes
2. New player model = yes
3. Map sources = GPL = yes
4. QuakeC = GPL = yes
5. Engine = yes
6. Textures = no = just use Nexuiz textures
7. Sounds = no = problematic
8. Health/ammo boxes = trivial = basically done
9. HUD/menu textures = problematic = no
10. Monster models = no
11. Miscellaneous models = yes

[Hazza]

Well, there's really not much left missing;
A few VERY abstract things;
-A full remodelling pack (besides the remodelling project for already a large amount of QUake content)
-A shambler with fur (not just a texture- more like Black and White 2)
-Some more expansions- at least as 'expansive as armagon' (new levels, guns AND totally new monsters- not just retexture works and no cheap ass block monsters like Q-Zone- and no total conversions- they don't count)- we only have Neharra and Quoth (well, if you played a series of Quoth maps it's sort of like an expansion)- there are a few other expansions, but they're mostly just (awesome) level packs.

[gnounc]

So rygels would be too derivitive to be legally redistributed? thats a shame.

I was thinking sounds would be the biggest problem, havent seen anyone do much work on that. We have a soundtrack or 2 though so thats nice.

And yeah, I've always wanted to see a shambler with maya like fur. That would be the shit

[Baker]

So rygels would be too derivitive to be legally redistributed? thats a shame.

Hmmm ... I haven't read the readme in a while on Rygel's texture pack, but as I recall he "GPL'd" the textures.

I think he stated they were all non-derivative and self-made.

I have to say this definitely falls into the "more research required" department. Off hand, I say some of the textures were not his to GPL but without being certain I don't want to risk making a false statement about his work.

But I'm thinking some of Rygel's work was derivative but I'm not 100% sure.

I was thinking sounds would be the biggest problem, havent seen anyone do much work on that. We have a soundtrack or 2 though so thats nice.

I've played around with sound and so did someone named alc.

Sounds are considerable burden. In particular, the player and monster sounds and the teleporter sounds need to be good because you hear them A LOT.

Slightly off track, but this is one reason I couldn't stand Quake 3. Quake's sounds can be listened to forever, but Quake 3's sounds were very hard on the ears and some of the characters like Orb made flat out annoying sounds and some of the player noises and grunts were likewise a nuisance to hear.

Now ... Research and development wise!

Since the QuakeC for Quake is open source, you don't have to remake all the models!

This gets deep, but you take Kell's theory of monster purpose (Kell was largely the guy behind Quoth) then you devise the monsters to represent a specific type of challenge.

Since a free Quake remake wouldn't actually feel like Quake (because it legally couldn't anyway), you could stick with all the easily replaceable Quake content like the maps and weapons and use alternate monsters to fill the roles that various Quake armada represented.

Case in point: The soldier, the knight, the hell knight and the enforcer could be a single model with 4 different skins. The scrag could be an unanimated aerial drone.

I've actually had deep conversations with someone very difficult to guess on theories to replace the Quake monsters with limited work.

[gnounc]

lol

with that in mind, I spose i dont want a free quake.
We've got saurbraten nexuiz openarena ...and Quake.
Paid for quake.

We can already do whatever the hell we want to it so in the end its splitting hairs over 9 bucks.

oh. and there is exactly 1 sound in quake I hate.

Its the soliders grooooan. or is it more generic..is it every monster?

its that raspy groan you hear through walls at every fucking corner..i hate it.
in fact i think im going to find it and delete it right now, its not that useful, and its terribly annoying.

[foq]

This is what's left of Quake:

[Baker]

lol

with that in mind, I spose i dont want a free quake.
We've got saurbraten nexuiz openarena ...and Quake.
Paid for quake.

We can already do whatever the hell we want to it so in the end its splitting hairs over 9 bucks.

$9 isn't really too much to ask for Quake.

That being said, a high quality free "Quake" could allow standalone mod releases. A high quality release done "right" could get an audience of 50,000-100,000 instead of an audience of 50-100.

And, fact of the matter is, if you pick a single thing that Quake excels at like no other game, it is that you can make great single player levels.

Nexuiz and OpenArena have no single player; Sauerbraten's single player is really bad I hate to say. Nexuiz gets really poor fps and runs on so few machines. Sauerbraten's fps aren't as bad but are pretty bad.

OpenArena on the other hand gets outstanding fps but really has about no modding potential in a meaningful way.

[gnounc]

That puts things into perspective a bit for me

[gnounc]

Isometric AHAHAHAH AHA ha ..ha.. hum.
*cries*

[R00k]

Why does it have to be a remake, are we really planning on playing the same levels over again? Why not a Continuation, maybe?

[MH]

I think the biggest stumbling block is actually the current licensing of shareware Quake. If we backtrack a little bit here and look at the actual objective, I don't think it's a "fully open source Quake" but is rather a "more freely redistributable Quake". So for example a site like QuakeOne should be able to distribute shareware Quake together with the remaining GPL maps and decent quality replacement content for what's left and get you 95% of the way there.

Of course, no matter how much ID or Carmack may want otherwise (and Carmack has said in the past that he would like to change the shareware license) there are other players in the game - distributers and publishers that ID may still have legal agreements with.

Regarding content, and specifically textures, I believe that ID's stance has always been that while these items remain non-free and copyrighted, they don't really mind if you use them. It's more of an informal arrangement though, and there would be a line beyond which reuse of ID assets under these terms would be taking the piss.

Overall I would be of the opinion that having a fully open source Quake is not really that big a deal; certainly not as big a deal as having a Quake that you can download and play for free (lowercase "f"), but then I'm maybe not as hung-up over the "purity of open source" thing as some might be.

[lxndr]

What does exist?

1. New weapons models = yes
2. New player model = yes
3. Map sources = GPL = yes
4. QuakeC = GPL = yes
5. Engine = yes
6. Textures = no = just use Nexuiz textures
7. Sounds = no = problematic
8. Health/ammo boxes = trivial = basically done
9. HUD/menu textures = problematic = no
10. Monster models = no
11. Miscellaneous models = yes

6. I don't understand, what's wrong with the high quality textures ?
7. Quake sounds are so excellent, technically feasible, but not without a big loss.
9. Need to get rid of the lmp format, but there's is already high quality HUD alternatives.
10. The biggest problem I can see, and like sounds, not without a big loss.

Beside, being free is the only way for Quake to stay alive, it could be included and mirrored in all major linux distributions, meaning reach a lot of people, could be playable in just one click, and there's no other free game that can compete in the singleplayer field.

[metchsteekle]

he means non high quality map textures for the .wads or whatever

[Baker]

6. I don't understand, what's wrong with the high quality textures ?
7. Quake sounds are so excellent, technically feasible, but not without a big loss.
9. Need to get rid of the lmp format, but there's is already high quality HUD alternatives.
10. The biggest problem I can see, and like sounds, not without a big loss.

Beside, being free is the only way for Quake to stay alive, it could be included and mirrored in all major linux distributions, meaning reach a lot of people, could be playable in just one click, and there's no other free game that can compete in the singleplayer field.

My point was more that you can't remake all the components of Quake and then release it as a free game and call it Quake.

There is no texture replacement pak that isn't using derivative textures that I know of ... all of them have at least some textures where they took the Quake texture and resampled it and then touched it up to make it look better; that isn't legal for a total conversion because those aren't self-made but derivative.

So the sounds and the textures are hurdles.

And even then, even if all the Quake media were remade, it is questionable that you could release it as a free game and even if you could you could certainly not call it Quake (Quake is trademark of id Software; if id Software didn't make it, it cannot be called Quake).

Anyway, you could ask around at Inside3d for opinions on that topic. There are some people that have participated in numerous discussions on that subject.

Fun, but involved conversation and deep. And very interesting.

Like you said, nothing can compare to Quake to the single player perspective. But that isn't so much the "media" or that a shambler is called a shambler, but that the QuakeC and map making tools just make it so easy to make the stuff.

Something that truly sets Quake apart from everything else.