Whats left of quake (thats not open source or been remade?)

[gnounc]

Viva la first person shooter that is fast paced, action packed, easily moddable and shall remain nameless!

[lxndr]

My point was more that you can't remake all the components of Quake and then release it as a free game and call it Quake.

There is no texture replacement pak that isn't using derivative textures that I know of ... all of them have at least some textures where they took the Quake texture and resampled it and then touched it up to make it look better; that isn't legal for a total conversion because those aren't self-made but derivative.

So the sounds and the textures are hurdles.

And even then, even if all the Quake media were remade, it is questionable that you could release it as a free game and even if you could you could certainly not call it Quake (Quake is trademark of id Software; if id Software didn't make it, it cannot be called Quake).

Anyway, you could ask around at Inside3d for opinions on that topic. There are some people that have participated in numerous discussions on that subject.

Fun, but involved conversation and deep. And very interesting.

Like you said, nothing can compare to Quake to the single player perspective. But that isn't so much the "media" or that a shambler is called a shambler, but that the QuakeC and map making tools just make it so easy to make the stuff.

Something that truly sets Quake apart from everything else.

That's sad. If I create from scratch a new texture which looks like a copyrighted one, it would no longer be a derivative work, right ? but it would be a counterfeit... arf.

I think I get your point. It sounds impossible to get a free "Quake", it would be something else, with different textures, different sounds, a different feeling, maybe better, but not Quake.

[Baker]

That's sad. If I create from scratch a new texture which looks like a copyrighted one, it would no longer be a derivative work, right ? but it would be a counterfeit... arf.

I think I get your point. It sounds impossible to get a free "Quake", it would be something else, with different textures, different sounds, a different feeling, maybe better, but not Quake.

I know this is perhaps a controversial statement, but I like Open Arena FAR better than Quake 3.

The maps are better, most of the characters look fine, the weapons and ammo models are great.

Plus, I am a big fan of Half-Life's extension of basic Quake (Valve licensed the Quake engine and modified it) and I enjoyed Half-Life.

I am a fan of Quake's gameplay and moddability ... but I feel the value of Quake is as a single player and multiplayer platform to mod.

For instance, the Slide mod just happened to use Quake. ThreeWave CTF just happened to use Quake.

I enjoyed Zerstoerer ... which had several custom monsters.

I guess my point is that if the quality were there, a standalone legally free unnamed Quake total conversion platform could open up the gates.

The reason I am sentimental about Quake is foremost that it was a game development toolbox that no one including id Software ever improved upon and we've been denied that future.

(Half-Life sort of improved on it: a better map format, better AI, better model format ... but the closed source state of it renders it useless).

[R00k]

Well then maybe we should focus on an open source, conversion?
How can Threewave not have the look and feel of quake, or RuneQuake for that matter? yet both are free. TEXTURES?? Ever hear of a digital camera?
It's not about making a FREE clone of Quake. It's about freely using the tools we have under the GPL to make something we can freely distribute. Or just do something fun until someone tells us to stop

[Baker]

Well then maybe we should focus on an open source, conversion?
How can Threewave not have the look and feel of quake, or RuneQuake for that matter? yet both are free.

I have been quietly hammering around the edges of this for the last year and a half. And where I can't act, I've nudged.

And although for the time being, my time is very limited, maybe I should release some of the work for others to build upon or to give an idea.

Some of the seemingly unconnected things I've worked on in the last year have a distinct pattern. Too bad I got hammered on time earlier in the year -- sigh -- and this has continued and gotten much worse (lack of time factor) in recent months.

Anyway:

Key issues hammered in last couple of years:

(Forget models and stuff --- let's talk engine; operating on the assumption that DarkPlaces just doesn't run on enough computers reliably with enough frames per second.)

1. Resolution switching. Normal now in most engines!
2. Kill rest of command line. Like DirectInput and memory. Normal at QuakeOne!
3. Gamedir switching. Normal now in most engines!
4. Half-Life map support. Normal now in most engines!
5. Transparency. Normal now in most engines!
6. Vwep. Critical! Thanks LockNLoad. Unfortunately, not in PQ or Qrack.
7. System stable fixes (clock, ALT-TAB fix, etc.) Fairly normal now!
8. AVI capture. If people can't YouTube, it ain't modern. Now in DarkPlaces and ProQuake. JoeQuake and Qrack have always had this. ezQuake has had for a while.
9. External entity files. Not yet, but isn't too hard.
10. Web download. Thanks Rook!
11. Prediction capable engine. Thanks ZQuake.
12. Chase cam fix. Thanks Rook and MH!
13. Zip support. To hell with pk3 and pak files. Will steal from eZQuake?
14. MD3 support. Not the panacea I was hoping for. But holds out hope.
15. Server browser. *COUGH* Mega-critical.
16. Multiplatform. Closer. I was able to make a Linux and Mac ProQuake ... thanks to Mithril and Woods. And I made a FitzQuake SDL 0.85-ish build for OSX to get some more play. Was hoping I'd get to get my hands real dirty with the Solitude project, but a strange combination of luck and inability to compile + life disruption messed that up. I'm sure --- if I had the time and I don't -- that making an OSX Qrack would be a piece of cake. Or even a Linux Qrack except my Linux machine died. Plus I have no time.

QuakeC

1. Avirox, Avirox, Avirox! Quake-Life. Avirox is the QuakeC MVP for the decade. What an awesome contributor to Quake.
2. CAx ... yeah it is "closed source" but not to Rook and Bam. I'll call that half a win and accept the 5 yards on the pass. But talk about player tested. And Yellow No. 5 and Phenom really pushed the agenda with Bomber and Dredd. What a great and play tested mod.
3. RuneQuake. Those European NetQuakers run that with all the runes stripped out like a CRMOD on steroids. SlotZero with prodding from Scott/Papasmurf.
4. RocketGuy and RQuake! Big research into online coop.
5. Quake Remake. Goldenboy and iJed and Supa and whoever else ... so many.
6. Everything at File Listing like pox extra's, Team Fortress'es model and sound precaching and Zerstoerer, etc.

Other Stuff

1. Nexuiz. I root for Nexuiz but the fps is bad and the universality of DarkPlaces is an impediment. But wow! All those textures and sounds and models are GPL. Everyone behind Nexuiz is a hero to Open Source. But very importantly ... the textures.

2. Scarecrow ... Nudged Romero to get the Quake maps GPL. A major win.

3. There is some mod of an earlier GTKRadiant editor at Func that ... maybe possibly ... has potential for being a quality map editor.

4. Fimg. It is rather solid for editing Sprites.

5. FTEQCC. The godsend of QuakeC compilers. Seriously.

6. The Resurrection of Engine modding! Inside3d has successfully replaced QuakeSrc.org as a place where serious engine development happens. (Thanks to moi for kickstarting it very hard until it gained critical mass. I'll bring the gasoline if someone else will light the match).

7. Metlslime aka John Fitzgibbons public prodding a few years back at Func_Msgboard to aggregate GPL map sources and encourage it. Much of Tyrann's and RPG's work is GPL.

8. The Quake Injector. Yes, Spirit did a fine job with that project. I know there was another guy and I'm ashamed I can't recall his name. Megaman? Sorry, I'm tired and can't remember.

Ok ... now considering the above, I do think things are on the right track.

There was SO much work to do in the past. Now, so little of it remains.

I mean it was a super-mountain a few years back. Now, everything is so much closer. There is still a gap, but it is SO much closer now.

[MH]

13. Zip support. To hell with pk3 and pak files. Will steal from eZQuake?

Take a look at the latest released DirectQ source for Zip support.

Also to add to your list: large map support. Pretty standard now too.

[Baker]

Take a look at the latest released DirectQ source for Zip support.

I'll have to check into that. Operating on the theory that someone making a mod doesn't want to bother with downloading Pakscape when they could just use their own zip tool.

I also would like to kill all the LMPs!

Also to add to your list: large map support. Pretty standard now too.

Ah yes, I did forget about that. That is some quality stuff.

You know, for a "dead game" there really has been an extraordinary amount of research and development in the last few years particularly on the engine side if you look at the totality of the 5 engine flavors [DarkPlaces/FTEQW/Experimental style engines - Quakeworld variants - NQ multiplayer variants - Single player-centric variants - Game console/phone ports].

On the QuakeC side of things it has occurred as well, but more towards the maturity/stability side.

[lxndr]

Well then maybe we should focus on an open source, conversion?
How can Threewave not have the look and feel of quake, or RuneQuake for that matter? yet both are free. TEXTURES?? Ever hear of a digital camera?
It's not about making a FREE clone of Quake. It's about freely using the tools we have under the GPL to make something we can freely distribute. Or just do something fun until someone tells us to stop

So we already have everything, level editors, engines, mappers, coders, gamers, everything. Let's create a new game !!!!!!!!!!!

[metchsteekle]

your missing the big resource of industry called time, not everyone has it. even thought it is the most constant and abundant, its a one way deal

[lxndr]

your missing the big resource of industry called time, not everyone has it. even thought it is the most constant and abundant, its a one way deal

That's sadly true, but unlike the game industry, we have centuries in front of us, I guess it's enough time to make a great game. Opensource hasn't those horrible deadlines, nor the money, so only fun could be the motivation, especially when you don't expect to see the end of the tunnel.

[R00k]

divide and conquer!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_...quer_algorithm

[lxndr]

That game isn't funny R00k. Oh.. wait. I get it!

Ok, here is a sort of plan:
- Brainstorm the game concept (with everyone)

Then on the coding side:
- List modifications required
- Define what need to be done in QC or in the engine
- Code

On the creative side:
- Delete every single non-free content
- Create new ones (especially sounds and models, we need modelers!)
- Do maps

Easy

[Baker]

That game isn't funny R00k. Oh.. wait. I get it!

Ok, here is a sort of plan:
- Brainstorm the game concept (with everyone)

Everything except the above.

Please. Don't. Do That.

Here is why ...

The end result of this WILL be effectively a gamekit. Brainstorm gameplay AFTER it exists.

If you brainstorm before, you will royally foobar everything beyond imagination and slow things down with pointless discussions that don't achieve any goals or move the ball forward.

Believe me. I know.

Focus on abstract features and functionality.

For example:

vwep makes modelling FAR easier. You can build a single character and then make him hold any weapon you like.

I pushed for alpha transparency (Half-Life glass), chasecam fixes (vehicles and camera work, obviously) and a horde of other requirements so things could approach a proper state and other abstract concepts are like tutorials on how to compile engines.

I also did the anti-wallhack experiment rip from FTEQW (which Rook vastly improved), not to solve the issue with that kind of cheating here [but that too!], but to ensure a standalone game has at least some integrity.

The by-products of what is being talked about above can make SEVERAL DOZEN games. Any singleplayer mod that exists could be a standalone downloadable game, for example [provided it is using usable content, i.e. no Quake stuff and all legally allowable stuff].

So you don't need to brainstorm that.

Because that is the point ... if such a thing is built, then it is open season to do whatever you want AND it will be EASY to be successful at whatever you want to achieve and can make it available for free.

Note: Talking is fun, but I'd rather walk it. Just to make this interesting, later tonight or sometime tomorrow I'll release and make available some cool stuff. It'll spark a bit of imagination, hahaha. Don't expect too much or try to guess ... but I think it could leave a nice impression.

[And keep in mind that standalone releases often can be dual purpose: BOTH as a standalone release and as a Quake mod too. There is a nice benefit to that.]

Note: Engine-wise the largest annoyance is needing the .lmp files for the HUD. PCX would be a big improvement (independent palette, small file size, and would be compatible even with, say, a software render even using 24 bit color like FTEQW -- some platforms don't have OpenGL ... like Nintendo DS port of Quake I'm just saying). PCX would lead to far faster HUD development too.

[Trickle]

I'll take charge of vwep and music if I have to.

[R00k]

vwep makes modelling FAR easier. You can build a single character and then make him hold any weapon you like.

vweps are easier in quakeC, than engine with a tweak to the protocol (standard netquake).
so the possibility already exists. the modeler can hide a prefered weapon, in the player same as the axe, and if vwep isnt supported then the model could use that object instead.

The end result of this WILL be effectively a gamekit. Brainstorm gameplay AFTER it exists.

There are a lot of tutorials, code snippets and resources that get loosely displaced and lost. Collecting these and creating a "carton of Easter eggs", can bloat the project. i think development starts in the middle and branches outwards in all direction.

How about, 'BioMech'. Urban city setting, post nuclear war. Everyone is infected with radiation. So the need to wear environmental suits is required. Which is your armament/vehicle, which can interface with a larger Mech transporter etc..
And there are mutants running around creating havoc, while other enemies try to destroy Earth...

i love rambling before i finish my 1st cup of coffee...