Reviving the dead fella :) aka GPL Multiplayer Quake Client.

[d1554573r]

I can see Baker that we share similliar point of view

About the moders, gtkradiant allows to make maps for quake and 20+ other games? With hi res textures and hipoly count q1 maps dont differ from other games, with dp extras it even surpasses 10 year younger games, so its a good training field.

[Baker]

I can see Baker that we share similliar point of view

About the moders, gtkradiant allows to make maps for quake and 20+ other games? With hi res textures and hipoly count q1 maps dont differ from other games, with dp extras it even surpasses 10 year younger games, so its a good training field.

Have you mapped for Quake with GTKRadiant? Just wondering. I mostly ask because I haven't been able to figure out the setup [yet].

One part of a "free Quake" is that eventually someone will want to map for it. NetRadiant is the only decent and open source editor that a Quake map can really be made in.

Worldcraft is getting to be rather touchy with newer systems. I like the editor and I made an incredibly easy to setup package for it. But in the long term, NetRadiant needs an easy to setup package.

The Remake Quake guys are adding features and various engine maintainers have been adding a rather synchonous set of features to support said stuff.

But I digress ...

[blw435]

I hadn't noticed this thread until today, and it's basically the whole thinking behind my 'port quake into source' idea.....

I've often wondered in the past about setting up a shareware quake server.... effectively you could just point people at the shareware files and they could play a limited amount for free. Not without the issues highlighted earlier in this thread.

Anywho..... this project looks very interesting and i'd be happy to support any way I could.... my experience largely surrounds Quake C and I've dabbled with very small tweakages on the Proquake engine in the past, but nothing heavy.

One question, do any of the more heavily modified Engines support in-game file downloading as per QW?

[R00k]

Imagine someone came out of the woodwork and made an entire sidescroller "Quake" clone for your smart PHONE. That looked like this using 24bit texture sprites...



It could run on your office "CLOCK"! But nay, this isnt what some would want

I'd love to gear up something like this! But then something like Borderlands would be awesome to!

image from this guys website....
Kawaiik

[Baker]

II've often wondered in the past about setting up a shareware quake server.... effectively you could just point people at the shareware files and they could play a limited amount for free. Not without the issues highlighted earlier in this thread.

The xCTF server xctf.clan-rum.org runs shareware. And once upon a time, exactly that was encouraged ...

FreeQuake: Install and Play Quake in 5 minutes!

The problem with doing that is ...

1) Established players won't play on such a server because the map selection. Someone will say I want to play e4m3 --- which isn't available --- so then they'll leave.

2) Those maps aren't very good for most kinds of games. In particular, they aren't good for deathmatch.

One question, do any of the more heavily modified Engines support in-game file downloading as per QW?

DarkPlaces will via the server and can via HTTP. Qrack, ProQuake and DirectQ will download maps off a web site via http download.

The shareware license agreement states that custom maps are not permissible with shareware. I once asked Todd Hollenshead at id Software about this in detail --- registered Quake only.

Now, in the Quakeworld community, they do have NQuake setup to download the maps and models off the servers if you are using shareware. You aren't supposed to. In fact, that is the whole concept behind NQuake -- to break the shareware license agreement "sneakily". And since the installer is hosted at SourceForge, it seems legit to someone downloading it.

But they don't play shareware maps in Quakeworld except for maybe e1m2 on rare occasions.

But it's not a legit way to do things. I read something about mvdsv (the server used in Quakeworld) being changed to not download pak1.pak files -- maybe someone got in trouble somehow (?).

Anyway, downloading the registered Quake files backhandedly via a server is unethical.

That being said, NQuake never did solve Quakeworld's real problem: bunny hopping. New players get absolutely slaughtered by longtime players who can expert bunnyhop and therefore move twice as fast or better. So if NQuake gets downloaded 1,000, they might get 3 players. It is quite hard enough to master Quake without adding bunnyhopping to the equation.

[Baker]

Something important to add in context is that for several years, there was no way to buy Quake new. Did Quake communities want to die because there was no way to buy Quake new?

In 2007 or 2008 when id started selling Quake via steam for $9.99, that did solve that issue.

The only way to buy Quake new from 2003 until 2007/2008 (whichever year they started selling Quake again) was an obscure and hard to find link on id Software web site and if I recall correctly ... for like 2 years the store part of the site didn't work and had some message about being re-designed or under construction.

As a result of not actually being able to buy it, Quake was "pirated" quite a bit and largely considered an entirely abandoned game by much of the Quake community. Likewise, you couldn't buy the mission packs new either.

And after a few years of that, to some people "pirating" Quake was just the normal way of doing things. The Quakeworld.nu site for the longest time had an eQuake link at the top to download the full version plus the client and all the files. In NQ, it was in most places a little more discreet but quite widespread.

[blw435]

Anyway, downloading the registered Quake files backhandedly via a server is unethical.

Was certainly not suggesting that would be a way forward and agree it would be unethical - I was just trying to gain an understanding of how things have progressed.

I've always believed the one advantage QW had over POQ was file downloading, simply because it makes things so much easier and hassle free (the presence of said feature in Source is certainly noted, especially with mods like Garrys mod where no two servers running the mod are the same) that said, I've always HATED QW's odd and 'un-natural' physics which quite frankly makes it relatively un playable IMO.

I think any such GPL aimed project should include the file downloading feature, along with anything that makes it as hassle free as possible.

[Spirit]

New players get absolutely slaughtered by longtime players who can expert bunnyhop and therefore move twice as fast or better. So if NQuake gets downloaded 1,000, they might get 3 players. It is quite hard enough to master Quake without adding bunnyhopping to the equation.

Oh shut up, Baker! You cannot justify a difference of experience by years with OMG BUNNYHOPPING!!!11 It might have been a bug, but wake up. It is a QuakeWorld feature. QuakeLive has bunnyhopping and you can find games for newbies easily. It is the experienced hardcore player base that makes it hard for newcomers. Whenever I try NetQuake I do not stand a chance against people who are used of the playing style.

[Skutarth]

Bunny hopping is what they call "emergent gameplay".
See here: Emergent gameplay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Keep in mind that rocket jumping is also emergent gameplay, found during a test deathmatch during Quake's development, and now it's a staple of the series.

[dfsp_spirit]

Imagine someone came out of the woodwork and made an entire sidescroller "Quake" clone for your smart PHONE.

Hehe, I recently thought about something like that. I got myself one of those shiny HTC phones running Android and installed Q2 and Q3, but since my phone has no physical keyboard but a touchscreen, the controls sucked (and it was slow). You need more simple games for these devices. But the SDK is there and I already had a look at it.

[R00k]

Ya I downloaded the Android SDK when it hit the net. But didnt do anything cause i have no time A side scroller only needs left, right, jump, and fire. Add a Z component and thats only 2 more buttons,
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|( + ) (A) (B)|
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[Baker]

Oh shut up, Baker! You cannot justify a difference of experience by years with OMG BUNNYHOPPING!!!11 It might have been a bug, but wake up. It is a QuakeWorld feature.

Is there really a need to discuss this or any type of realistic counter-argument?

I'm just pointing out that bunnyhopping is a new player deterrent feature. Experts players love bunnyhopping and trick moves. Obviously, as Quakeworld is populated by players that love the game the way that it is and have played it a long time, bunnyhopping is obviously popular within the community.

I'm not too interested in discussing the topic because there isn't really anything to talk about or even argue. Why would a feature request that was considered for EZQuake the ability to automatically accelerate bunnyhop by pressing jump repeatedly be discussed?

I'm pointing out things that have newbie deterrent potential. Discussing bunnyhopping fits well within that discussion.

A GPL Quake-like project isn't to please existing player preferences necessarily. Existing players already play.

NetQuake, for example, DM3 gets nearly exclusive play. Is the fact DM3 gets nearly exclusive play mean that the best thing to do is make a one-map multiplayer game? Or is the fact DM3 gets nearly exclusive play a major deterrent to playing NetQuake?

I imagine in the not so distant future, physics could be vote-able. Then there isn't a need for bunnyhopping argument and players can just sort that out for themselves.

[Baker]

Spirit, perhaps a better history example (and rather recent).

The CA+ (Clan Arena) mod was the standard NetQuake Clan Arena for years.

It had rocket damage capped at 100 for some reason. In CA+, you pulled out the LG or you were dead meat.

When R00k and Bam made the Clan Arena X in 2006, rocket damage was restored to the normal Quake rocket damage of maximum 120.

Long time CA+ players screamed bloody murder. "OMG!" "WTF!" "Gay!"

And CAx went gangbusters with new players who had a fighting chance.

And CAx servers maxxed out every single night for several months and the audience widened substantially.

[R00k]

Sadly, the hook in CTF is a newbie deterrent also. But VERY much a core component of the game. I probably wouldnt have stuck to the Quake one scene had i just played FFA deathmatch. Ironically, bunny-hopping in CTF is very automatic, even though it tapers off quickly after initial contact, I still cannot hook without hopping once i land. On the other hand, i cant bunnyhop for sh!t on a deathmatch/ca server. I remember back learning to LET GO of the hook in mid air, then double tapping space in mid air holding the spacebar so when i land it would automatically bunnyhop. LEtting off forward, and hold either strafe key to get the boost, then press forward again, and thats all the extra kick netQuake gives you. I think if someone made a female model with jiggly boobs, more newbs would learn bunnyhopping

[d1554573r]

One question, do any of the more heavily modified Engines support in-game file downloading as per QW?

Darkplaces does. Quake C skills are always welcomed.

I'll post project road map soon in the work-in-progress topic.

@baker
I havn't mapped for quake in gtkradiant so far.