Illegal Download Links to be Moderated

[Sajt]

Bank, I hate you. Die!

[FrikaC]

I don't know about the legal aspects of this whole discussion but there is some reason to fear providing links to this content.

Most of you will not remember this, but QuakePit a number of years ago got email messages from a company that claimed to provide 'copyright services' for id Software. It was an automated but professional email basically that said various files (itemized in the email) hosted on the QuakePit site were infringing on id's intellectual property (they specifically mentioned Quake 1) and if access to them wasn't blocked they may seek legal action.

A copy of the email was also sent to QuakePit's hosting service, but they guy that did the hosting knew games and Quake well and talked with the people running QuakePit. They replied to the mail and demonstrated at the files they mentioned didn't infringe id's Quake copyrights at all (surprisingly, I think Electro's Q1A mod was there but the firm they failed to mention it ). Only one file was taken down because they couldn't contact the author.

Bear in mind this was only a few years ago.

Okay, so one roving crazed email-threat based firm is nothing to worry about, right? Well, depending on the hosting, bad things can and probably do happen. My ISP shut off and banned me from my cable internet access based solely on some automated copyright infringement emails from Paramount (2 out of 3 were completely bogus, but I did get caught torrenting an episode of a television show I had missed one week though (the first complaint), so I didn't bother contesting it, I just signed up for cable again under a different name, luckily more than one person lives here ).

It's a chilling effect, ISPs and hosts probably don't want to deal with any legal issues. If they're large enough and they are actively hostile to their userbase, like mine, they simply block access. The loss of customers in this case probably underweighs the cost it would require to argue each claim.

I'm sure if you had a site hosted on something like geoshities, they'd just delete it on the slightest hint of copyright infringement.

QuakeOne likely isn't in this boat, but it's best not to rock the boat, or to tempt fate. A stitch in time can save nine.

[Yellow No. 5]

Again..here a is link to a discussion from one month ago where Todd Hollenshead expresses dismay at doom 2 (zdaemon) piracy.
http://mancubus.net/forums/index.php?topic=651.0

[spectre]

Bank:

I really don't give a crap if people "like" you.

Skulltag might be superior in your mind, however statistics (number of players) show that ZDaemon is far more popular.

Stealing Quake doesn't make me an idiot. Stealing Quake makes me a theif.
Making rediculous, inaccurate comments without thinking is what makes you an idiot.


FrikaC:

Good post, but the difference I see between what you're describing and what's potentially going to happen here is that QuakeOne would not be hosting the files, where as in your example, that site was hosting the files (correct me if I'm wrong).

The discussion often seems to return to people making points about hosting vs. not hosting files. Everyone here needs to remember that we're not proposing that QuakeOne host the files or break any laws, simply link to others that are.

I say let the hosters deal with the legal issues, and let us take advantage of their risk taking while they're around in order to grow the playerbase.


Yellow No. 5:

Nowhere in that e-mail does he express "dismay" or any other opinion over the situation in question. It's not even up for interpretation. He simply states that the activity is in violation of the license and the law. For all we know he fully supports the illegal activity being discussed.

[Canadian*Sniper]

I spoke to a friend that studies Business Law. I told him the scenario in full and he basically said that the host (Sole) is not liable unless ID asks him to remove the link and he refuses. That's for MOST CASES

I still think it's unprofessional to referrence warez here.

[Yellow No. 5]

spectre, I'm sorry that QuakeOne won't be allowing links to warez sites. Please try to move on with your life.

[spectre]

sniper: Even if Solo refuses, he's still not liable. He's STILL not hosting the files.

spectre, I'm sorry that QuakeOne won't be allowing links to warez sites. Please try to move on with your life.

I'm sorry that you're never going to be good at rational thinking. Please try to move on with your life.

I'll venture a guess that you're not an administrator here because of your incredible mental prowess.

Why should I simply accept decisions that I deem foolish when I have an opportunity to voice my opinion and potentially change them?

I also wasn't aware that every site that has quake available for download was a warez site. I'm pretty sure that's about as accurate as saying every black man is a criminal. I humbly bow to your extreme skill at making sensationalist generalizations.

I find your defeatist, closed minded attitude pretty pathetic. You're very clearly not very interested in growing the Quake community, and I would suggest you find a different forum to spend your time on.

[Baker]

yellow: i'm sorry that you're never going to be good at quake. please try to move on with your life.

Yeah, Yellow! You suck and I hate you

you're very clearly not interested in growing the quake community.

In another thread, Spirit and I get in a short conversation. It's almost impossible to NOT find an illegal free download of registered Quake. I know of at least 10 sites that have them.

What happens here has little to do with the big picture.

your defeatist, closed minded attitude is pretty pathetic.

Yellow is a smart guy. None of here are defeatist. Just watch, we haven't had this site up very long, it's only been around barely 2 months now.

I like everything you have contributed to the discussion on this.

I personally feel that things would be different if ID Software made more than a token effort to make Quake available for sale.

What we do here has little to do with the fact that people do download full versions of Quake all the time because it is all over the internet.

But the moderation policy is moot point. Solecord doesn't want the potential hassles, and I support that and so does No. 5. That's all I need to know to be 100% supportive of the moderation change.

[spectre]

Maybe an alternative solution would be to have him put someone elses name down as the owner of the website and pay the bills: Someone that's willing to take the risk. Of course if you're going to do that, you could almost just as well start another site entirely.

The problem with that, however, is that it divides the community instead of uniting it.

I think this type of website is a perfect staging ground for the re-growth of Quake, and I think every opportunity should be taken advantage of to help it along.

[Baker]

I think this type of website is a perfect staging ground for the re-growth of Quake, and I think every opportunity should be taken advantage of to help it along.

We want to legally re-grow the Quake community. And we will be doing that in several ways.

Aside from the fine print details of the above, which are being worked out in the background, there are a lot of other things we have tried to correct here.

We want information on the game, source codes, mods, clients, required files to be available. We've already done a great job on that. We've got more to do, but we are off to an outstanding start.

The downloads section has shown a lot of usage. 3 entirely new mods --- CAx, RQuake and another one not disclosed yet -- have been developed. And so much more than that, actually.

We've got more we want to do, this site is still under construction. We want to have an improved downloads section, an entire server browser page with every server there is and other things.

Things take time to get fixed. I, like yourself, want more players on the servers -- all of us want that.

We have an area not located on this site where we discuss things that has 1400 posts in 400 threads over the course of a year. We aren't mindless.

I'd like things to be faster -- I'm impatient.

Hang around, enjoy yourself, flame some of the less experienced members of the forum so they can learn to deal with that :d .. and watch as things evolve.

[Grim]

Baker, does the shareware version of Quake have an online multiplayer function?

[Monster]

Yeah of course, but only with server that run the shareware maps only.

[Solecord]

spectre, if you're so adamant about uniting the community with illegal downloads of Quake, why not instead of wasting your time trying to convince us to allow links to these downloads you try to convince ID Software to freely release Quake? Until ID freely releases Quake I'm keeping my stance on this issue.

[Grim]

Yeah of course, but only with server that run the shareware maps only.

If someone new was to want to try quake, I'd think that they would play the single player first. I'm only basing this off of my own way that I play a game.

I imagine some others would like to jump right into the multiplayer area first... again, I don't know.


Maybe there should be shareware servers put up in support for those new people that would like to try it first instead of giving them a link to a full blown version.

If you want to get copies of games w/out paying for them then that's you. I pay to play.

It's easy to get your hands on a copy that you can pay for.

Ebay:
$5:00/$13.00 shipping

$.50 $3.00 shipping - used for DOS 5.0 and Higher.

Quake, Quake Aftershock with Aftershock Tools and Q!Zone with additional Quake levels. $5.00

Amazon:
Amazon.com $20

And you can always get it at id software for $25.00

Point is, that it didn't take me 10 minutes to find this and, IMO, it's not stealing.

[Canadian*Sniper]

sniper: Even if Solo refuses, he's still not liable. He's STILL not hosting the files.

Actually the only fact that's keeping the host from being liable is that he did not know about the illegal referrence. If HE posted the referrence or didn't remove the link then the host IS liable. It's the same as linking to child porn. Illegal referrences must be removed eventually.

spectre, if you're so adamant about uniting the community with illegal downloads of Quake, why not instead of wasting your time trying to convince us to allow links to these downloads you try to convince ID Software to freely release Quake? Until ID freely releases Quake I'm keeping my stance on this issue.

Good call. It's like society. We all smoke pot but we don't sell it to you publicly. Instead you have to confront us alone and then the crack sale begins In other words, PM us.