(Poll) Main reasons for using GLProQuake rather than DarkPlaces

[Baker]

What's important to a client nowadays isn't special effects or graphics but pure playability, the lighter and easier a client feels in the heat of a multiplayer battle the better. Proquake is clearly the smoothest, fastest multiplayer client as of now, If someone could capture whats good about proquake and add all the extra gfx stuff ect as an option that would be perfect, also create a new cheat-free module that would incorporate all the most popular clients.

This is a very well worded summary of how a lot players (including myself) evaluate an engine.

[scar3crow]

GLPro timedemo of demo1.dem gets me 419
DP, not even the latest build, gets me 212

GLPro doesnt feel as smooth in motion to me, it feels a tiny bit jerky, like my player has something scraping at the bottom of his shoes... Hard to explain but its definitely not as smooth as DP for me, its a less drastic version of player movement in Diablo as opposed to player movement in Diablo2. (That for me is the hardest transition between the 2 games, not the magic systems or the ability to run, but precision of movement).

[Baker]

GLPro doesnt feel as smooth in motion to me, it feels a tiny bit jerky, like my player has something scraping at the bottom of his shoes... Hard to explain but its definitely not as smooth as DP for me

With my setup, DarkPlaces is smoother than GLPRO over the internet and using DarkPlaces and switching back to GLPRO you *can* feel the "tiny bit jerky" that you describe.

With DarkPlaces, the "tiny bit jerky" is gone and with mods that have self-damage (not CA) you get increased confidence to make shots with the RL that the "tiny bit jerky" might get you killed with.

When DarkPlaces can be loaded up and someone not familiar with the engine can find settings they feel comfortable with quickly, players will start to switch to DarkPlaces and at an increasing rate.

I think this day is coming very soon. It won't mean *everyone* will switch, some can't use DarkPlaces due to video card stuff and some players will prefer Qrack and JoeQuake or still even prefer GLPRO (I mean, a small minority of players won't ditch GLQuake of all things).

But if you can start DarkPlaces and play just as well as or better than GLPRO and have the conveniences of ....

1) switching resolution via the menu
2) setting brightness via the menu
3) and the option of nicer graphics
4) being able to get better than 72 FPS natively (without the control panel)
5) and be able to set mouselook and FOV via options

... and still have the major GLPRO conveniences that have been added to DP, then players will start switching.

[QuadRaptor]

I actually prefer DarkPlaces over GLProquake for a few reasons:

- The graphics actually don't slow my gameplay down
- PQ constantly resets my mouse speed from my preferred speed (around 7) back to the default. I've tried to fix this but it keeps on happening and messes my turning speed because I get used to the slower speed than my preferred speed. DP doesn't do that - the default speed actually works better for me.

[Baker]

PQ constantly resets my mouse speed from my preferred speed (around 7) back to the default.

It could be the default F11 Zoom key which changes sensitivity back 3. Worst default bound Quake key ever.

[LordHavoc]

Here is the March 14 build (it connects to ca.quakeone.com):

http://www.quakeone.com/q1files/mar14.log (March 14 build, success)

http://www.quakeone.com/q1files/connectproblem.log (March 15 build, fails)

I took a few minutes and downloaded a few different builds (Nov25, January 2007, March 2) and all of them connect just fine except the March 15 build doesn't. I hope that helps.

After masking out the differences in port numbers and memory addresses, the connect logs are identical up until the point where mar14 receives a packet and mar15 doesn't, so there is no difference.

[Baker]

It works for me now with the March 15th build ... strange

/I tried 6 different builds of DarkPlaces earlier today and the March 15th one was the one that wouldn't connect. As long as it works.

[Canadian*Sniper]

I can't connect to rage when I'm connecting from my home server (DP7). I can connect to rage when I start quake (playing the usual demos).

[Yellow No. 5]

I don't think DarkPlaces has to become "the standard"..

Sure but it would be great if it did become the standard, because pq is a drag on quake.

As for required features now missing, it would be anything pq does, such as on th fly demoing (does dp have this now?), proquake rcon (and I like the rcon_server staying constant), iplog, pq_teamscoresm (3 of the 4 mods still played are team based).

mm2 noise: qrack notifies you of a mm2 msg with a differnt beep than the mm1 beep.

Originally Posted by Yellow No. 5
would allow any basic netquake client to connect to, but would support better netcode and other improvements if the client could.

I've been considering this server feature, it is not easy to implement however.

DP is used as the basis for standalone games and projects like Nexuiz, Transfusion, Darsana, Feral Flesh, Zymotic and other undisclosed projects. DarkPlaces extends beyond the Quake community...

That doesn't do netquakers any good, we don't want to play those games we want our familiar old quake. Dp may be great for those projects, but that may make it less great for quake.
If the internal structure is so much different, though it may be improved in a technical way, maybe it causes it to feel different in a way that netquakers dont like? If we just wanted an improved engine with better graphics and didn't care about the feel of the game, we'd all have moved on to new games anyways. Much like how some people prefer the more organic sound of vinyl to cds. Thats a pretty small minority, but in quake1 that small minority are the ones who still play it (....and talking about it forums doesn't count as playing it). Dp kind of feels like q3 to me, clearly an improvement but somehow not as satisfying. Qrack is the #2 engine because it feels and plays exactly like proquake, while fixing improving the visuals and clarity and addign gameplay related conveniences.

*note, it's been a while since i used dp so I'm going to install it and play some games with it to get a fresh impression.

[scar3crow]

You missed my point, what I was speaking of was the fact that when LordHavoc works on DarkPlaces, it affects more than the Quake community as the engine does more than just Quake. Not stating it as a positive or a negative, but it isnt in the same scope as most other engines for that reason alone. I am simply saying, DarkPlaces is a Quake engine. However it is also not just a Quake engine.

Having just loaded up winQuake, glQuake, glpro, Qrack and DarkPlaces... Qrack feels nothing like Quake to me, it honestly feels like another engine that loads Quake maps, on this I dont see why authenticity can be argued (no offense intended to R00k, not saying that it is bad, merely that it doesnt feel like Quake motion). winQuake feels like it did over 10 years ago when I played it then, glQuake feels like it did 8 years ago when I played it, glPro feels like winQuake if I was randomly kind of stubbing my toe, there was something off, and DarkPlaces feels like GLQuake only it looks better and supports more.

Please dont speak of using DarkPlaces as being some new kid on the block style thing, LordHavoc has been playing Quake since its release, as have I, were both familiar with how it feels. In my case, I think glPro feels like Quake when youre just about to finish coming down from nitrous oxide - for the most part things are together, but every now and then the motion just feels a little... off. As a veteran player of Quake you prefer glPro and Qrack for various reasons youve listed, as a veteran player of Quake I prefer DarkPlaces because it feels like Quake, more so than the other engines aside from maybe FitzQuake, but with the ability to do more, and looking sharper without infringing through the use of unnecessary third party files (I hate it when engines come with extra things like texture and model replacements, if I want those, I will download them).

[Canadian*Sniper]

I don't want to see this thread stray off topic as I do see the benefits to this discussion. The purpose of this thread was to hear the opinions of non-darkplaces users on why they prefer other engines (in this case, glpro). This way LordHavoc would be able to use that feedback to enhance the engine if he could. I have been keeping quiet on other people's opinions in this thread because I'm a darkplaces user and would not contribute to this discussion with a bias towards darkplaces.

With that being said, please carry on.

[Baker]

I think the emotion evoked in discussions regarding DarkPlaces work like this:

1. Everyone wants something better.
2. Everyone wants something new and fresh.
3. How can we get from point A to point B.
4. Frustration that we aren't at point B.

When a new player loads up an engine for multiplayer, really they mentally do this:

1. You need to get a constant 60+ FPS to do well in Quake. If your FPS ever dips below 60 (I mean *EVER*), you cannot shaft AND you cannot defend yourself. A player, consciously or not, will notice if they are a hopeless frag. With DarkPlaces, this can be an issue, but in GLPro it is pretty much a non-issue.

2. Then a player will probably turn as much stuff on they can while still meeting criteria #1.

3. A player will also need to be able to see clearly. Moving the brightness settings to Options = (b) (b)

When I say that at least for Quake you need a constant 60 FPS, what I mean is that if the FPS dips below 60 there it is always going to be when they are attacked and have rockets exploding by them, it won't be in empty room :d

If the FPS dips to, say, 25 to 37 when rockets are exploding around them, chances are the FPS dip will guarantee they get fragged. This is why on really bad computers, players use wqpro instead because wqpro is virtually impervious to performance issues of any kind.

Also, if the FPS dips below 60, you can't keep the lightning gun locked on someone -- it is simply impossible.

This is sort of thinking out loud while I try to figure out what the deal is with my DarkPlaces not connecting. Right now, my DarkPlaces seems to not connect due to my config for some reason. If I go into a sub-menu and set something or turn something ON or OFF (I haven't identified what it is), I can no longer successful connect to NQ servers.

At this point, I'm thinking the problem isn't that I "can't connect" but rather other setting is hosing DarkPlaces when a map changes or is initialized -- which looks similar to a "can't connect" but is actually some other issue in disguise.

[Baker]

Concise summary of the above post:

If someone gets 1) good FPS even in an intense battle and 2) can see clearly in DarkPlaces, they are going to like it. #2 seems like a complete non-issue with the new menu.

[scar3crow]

Canadian youre spot on, and I apologize for the tangent, just some pet peeves kept being stepped on, and lately Ive not had the most patient of a voice. Thanks for keeping me in check.

[RocketGuy]

I would also like it if the bestweapon command was changed to be like PQ (bestweapon 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 because current bestweapon behavious is incompatible with my autoexec.