New DM Map - Thirsty

[MadGypsy]

Of course, bro. I am a character (if you didn't notice) and I'm also kind of a smart ass ( just a little bit ), so I feel free and care-free to say some pretty ridiculous things at times.

Also, I noticed you apollogized for calling my map noobish. I just want you to know that I was not offended. That was the one thing out of what everyone said that I actually had interest in (how to make a better layout). I know I'm a noob, especially if we are going to start comparing what you know vs how I implement map things. I mean, lets be clear, I know tons and am even writing the book on it, but I don't necessarily agree with everything I know.

I didn't agree that getting stuck on the rocks sucked. In my world thats what you get for walking on giant randomly spaced stone blocks...stuck. You may be thinking something like "Yeah, but it ruins gameplay because you are stuck and people can easily kill you while you are trying to fight your way out" I look at it as "Ha ha dumbass, you got stuck and now people are gonna kill you while you try in vain to fight your way out"

You and according to that light tutorial you posted a long time ago agree that light should lead people and I agree with that too, but I don't agree that just because their is a light it means you can go that way. What about a window? "I can see light inside but this stupid invisible shield is stopping me...this game sucks"

See what I'm saying? Much of this is what the pro's have determined vs what is actually possible and other ways it can be utilized or possibly even disregarded. The light above the hole had nothing to do with the hole, it was just a light that happened to shine below. Trying to get out that way sucked. In my world anyone with a brain would realize "This is not an out and that light above has nothing to do with nothing but making sure there is light"

[MadGypsy]

Man, I'm stuck and have wasted an hour stuck (not in my blocks lol). Where the hell should I put a normal way up from the basement? I don't really want to use a teleporter. Maybe I should break some more floor in the spot that everyone thought was an out and create an actual way out there. I could place blocks to suspiciously form steps. maybe even take some blocks from the floor above so the stacking doesn't seem impossible.

Initially I built the wall with the little fence ends to be the spot to go up, but it is right under the stairs. The only way up would be a lift cause more stairs arent going to fit properly. I'm not against a lift that dumps you up one level under the stairs, I just think there is probably something better that i could do.

Anyway, all of you have access to the latest map, if you would like to give me a hand I could at least use some advice on how to get back upstairs normally, from someone that has actually "played" my map.

Oh PS (I keep forgetting to post this) - The map isn't really named thirsty. Thirsty is what I was when I made this thread. I don't have a name yet. Or maybe it would be more correct to say that I have like a gabillion names and I can't choose. Imma wait til the map is done to officially name it.

[MadGypsy]

So, no one has any suggestions as to where I should put a normal way of access to the first floor from the flooded basement? I mean, here's your shot to have part of the map reflecting your ideas and input... no interest?

[golden_boy]

How to get back upstairs? Build a stairwell in the place that is farthest from the angled block. Connect that to a new major room. Then connect that to the old main room in many different ways.

Remember to build some small niches for items. Main items such as armours should have their dedicated little places.

[JDSTONE]

i have not played the map but if your willing to have it played with a qc mod i would say a grappling hook pick up also i would like to add that trick jumps to get powerups are cool trick jumps to get to the next part of the world suck!

[MadGypsy]

1) The name of the map is officially Parkour. If you don't know what that is, it's that shit where you see people treating everyday pieces of the environment as an athletic training course. Like flipping over stairs and jumping over stuff, etc

2) I named it that because the entire debris area has been clipped, re-arranged (a little) and reconsidered to turn slope jumping into a strategy.

trick jumps to get to the next part of the world suck!

your opinion is noted.

I will be adding more trick navigations to the map so it can fully live up to it's name.

3) Let's face it, for some reason the lights I had (on the wood beam) seemed to work, but in reality that shit was garbage. I have completely revamped the lights over about 30% of the map and when I finish this post I'm going to try and do the other 70%. I don't want to even spend 1 second on custom textures so I took the available id1 textures and combined a couple over the face of a bsp model. The lights are now models* and they look pretty good (pics later).

4) I added some barred ports on one of the flooded basements walls so, spamming the arena with rockets "from the shadows" is now possible. However, There are only a few angles that you gain visibility from so, you can't just annihilate the battlefield. If the arena area could be considered "15 sections" you could hit about 5 of those.

5) other things have changed a little bit - Like clipping out every single wall and rounding all corners with clip brushes, for minimal snag. I actually have only clipped finished walls, so far. There are quite a few of those though.

*lights are models - I don't mean external, qc defined models. I just mean like a prefab.

----

Coming soon - as a tutorial for my future radiant handbook:

The complete .ent

Hands down, the definitive .ent tutorial. It will cover every single solitary tag, all of the attributes the tag can accept and what you can expect to happen in the entity inspector when you use each tag. I will even go into how to define your own tag once and then drag that tag through every entity...instead of rewriting the larger part over and over.

It will be the bible of an .ent, I promise you.

[Tea Monster]

It's looking good. I like how you stagger stuff like crates and other objects, as if they were placed down, rather than extruded.

[MadGypsy]

Thanks! The map has come a long way since I last posted pics/map. I'll be posting media for it again soon. Really, I want to finish redoing all the lights/lighting before I post it again. My last post I had 70% of lights to go, now I have about 30% left. I have also made some pretty serious changes to the layout of some areas.

as if they were placed down, rather than extruded.

They were placed down. In many cases one block at a time. I wish radiant didn't make me reposition textures on rotated objects. Even with texture lock on, rotated objects will not hold the lock while being rotated. Worldcraft had this same problem.

[MadGypsy]

I started completely over and redesigned the same map from the ground up. The difference is this time I knew where everything was going to go and I didn't use any CSG. Every single brush was placed by hand with no automatic subtraction or carving what-so-ever. Here are some screenshots for your viewing enjoyment.









You may notice that one of the most notable changes is the lights. There are no more simple brushes with light textures applied to them stuck on walls and ceilings. Lighting has been considered to death. I may still need to work on the actual light properties, but the sources come in like 7 different flavors.

Another obvious change is the geometry, especially in the basement. Where there used to be one wall with gated ends, there is now a labrynth of those walls and they open up into a ported room that looks out onto the "arena".

I have clip brushed this map to death. There is one little spot where you can get snagged and I can't for the life of me figure out why. It is already clipped off and nothing is sticking out...so, IDK. Aside from that one very minor and probably rarely visited spot, I believe I have eliminated any hard edges (excluding the natural and very blocky edges of the debris pile...of course)

[Syluxguy28O3]

very good job, kind sir.

[golden_boy]

Lookin' good. Still looks more like a single player map to me, if I may say so.

[MadGypsy]

Thanks, sylux & gb! I've done so much to this map.

Let's take a walk down memory lane. I started with this steamy dump:


and upgraded to basically this:

with some this:


I also had something like this:


but I turned it into this:

and converted that back wall to this:


and let's not forget that this:

now looks like this:


so, yeah, I've done a lot of work and there is plenty more to do.

[MadGypsy]

The bane of my existence, my kryptonite, is lights. By the end of this map I will be the master of lights, but not necessarily willingly. I'll be 100% frank, I'm sick and fucking tired of lights! One place in particular is driving me insane. I either get really good light but, Random Shadows of Interference and Annoyance or I get bad lights. The "inbetween" is not acceptable. I understand my problem, I just don't understand how to fix it (yet).



The above pic is current, the below pic is 1 version before the above and it is only here for comparison. I believe that I'm finally finding a good balance between light and dark. You may also notice that I raised the ceiling and it's accompanying parts 64 units. This added instant drama to the environment.

[golden_boy]

Your new lighting looks like a singleplayer Quake map. You're going for atmosphere and dark shadows - i think you don't fully realize the difference between singleplayer and multiplayer level design yet.

The two are apples and oranges.

In singleplayer, you want moody lighting and immerse the player - what might lurk in the dark?

In multiplayer, you want to provide a canvas for the players to, in this case, frag each other without mercy. Shadows and brush detail aren't important. Look at successful multiplayer shooters - their maps are usually rather bright, and they have items like armour and weapons placed in dedicated spots. Some of the most popular maps even don't have walls and ceilings - The Longest Yard comes to mind. You see, ceilings limit rocket jumping... They also usually have a looping layout with broad corridors and ample space for players to move around without having to turn 180 or hitting dead ends. This is done for a reason.

In both cases, form follows function (heh), but the functions are rather different.

Like I said elsewhere, try a greybox approach sometime with only the items in it.

[OMacKnight]

Sorry I haven't put forward any thoughts or ideas. New computer (upgraded to dual core), been incredibly busy with a game I'm making and haven't had time to quake. I'll try and sit down some time in the next few days and take a good look at it for you.

Though I'm sure GB has said quite a lot of what I might. Though I like the idea of a skilled map where you have to watch your step, making an interesting multiplayer experience.