HD Models

[Spike]

if you read his posts, you'd realise that he was aiming for a low-poly mesh with 7k polies (or 15k if it looks poo at 7k).
putting that normalmap+texture on the original q2 poly model would be crazy. it would just look goofy. see quake1 monster retexturing projects as proof of this.

it would be nice to see it animated as its a bit useless without, but to each their own.

[s13n1]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions guys, much appreciated!

There are three games i would love to make complete model sets for.

Doom / Doom64 - A combination of the best designs from all the classic doom games. Render out high res sprites for the purist, but provide high poly models for the 3D crowd. Weapons and items and map objects included.

Quake 1 - Same deal. All objects remodeled, but kept very close to original gritty designs. All animations skeletal based so heads can track player, torsos can rotate independently of legs. I would also love to see a DX11 engine conversion, so tessellation can be utilized, so all the extra details can be retained and levels can really shine with actual 3D textures.

Quake 2 - Obviously continue the work ive done with the Infantry but complete all models.

This is a pretty huge job and could easily take 6, 9 or 12 months per game. Some of those original Quake2 models have over 450 frames of animation.

You know its crossed my mind to crowdfund such things, but when you take into consideration the time it takes, you have to put a pretty substantial dollar value on it. Ten grand wouldn't be out of the question for that kind of work, per game. An industry professional would ask a hell of a lot more i imagine.

One thing i have to remind you all is that i'm not here to make more models like this. I came here just to get some ideas for my next sculpt.

I'm only making these models to learn how to use Max and MudBox. I have a full time project that ill be returning to once i feel my modeling abilities are up to scratch. You can check it out here: Trespassing | A Trespasser Remake

I want t be able to make really good film quality dinosaurs, so i need to practice first.

Sza: I think you're a bit confused with the process im using.

My base model no longer looks anything like the original quake2 models. I'm not using the original models, only to start the new sculpt. I make a new low(er) poly mesh from this sculpt, that will probably be 5000-7500 polys.

There are a few different ways you can make a new low poly mesh. MudBox can retopologize it for you, but its not exactly symmetrical or optimized. Still bloody good for an automated process though.

You can make it yourself in traditional ways, but this would be a very long and horrible process.

You can use other programs like 3D Coat to make it in a number of ways. It's retopology tools are very good, producing much more symmetrical meshes than MudBox can produce. Very fast and easy to use too. It also has manual retopology options, allowing you to build a low poly mesh over top of your high poly sculpt, and there are a few different ways to do that too.

Watch these and be impressed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aizay09NMW8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh8qAVkXzlI
I cant believe this one is from 2011!

I wish i started learning all this stuff sooner.

I'm going to have to have a closer look at 3D Coat. Its an amazing program that could very well replace a number of other programs.

I gotta go to work.

[Tea Monster]

Topogun is good for retopologizing and only costs around 100 quid. 3D Coat's retopo tools are supposedly excellent and you can pick up a student version for only 100 bucks.

[hgdagon]

...Original has more of a fatso pighead look

Yes it does. And as far as this model is so faithful, I'd prefer it to be faithful in the head part, too. It still depends on HIS vision of the model, though...

[s13n1]

Okay, i'm sick of you Sza.

You need to listen and stop replying with bullshit, to try and sound like you know what you're doing, because you clearly don't.

I'm starting to think you have one of those mental disorders where you simply cant not say anything. I bet even in real life you do the same thing. Its a compulsive disorder that you need to seek help for.

You have no idea how to use MudBox other than to sculpt some basic detail, yet you try to educate me on things you've never done.

@s13n1 i think i know you from unity 3d scene but i am not sure. Why should i be cnfused? Very nice gfx Just what i like.

BTW: Nope. My method is taking not much time (for me). I will not even use the stand model in game

No you dont know, me, i dont use unity.

Yes you will use the original model, because you dont know how to model and wont be making new models. You also have such little skill in modeling that your taking a very long time to use misfit 3d to try and make your "t-pose". You have said countless times in many different threads that you need a t-pose for the standard model, unmodified so you can keep the UV's. This is so you can sculpt some shit in MudBox and bake it onto the original model which needs UV's. And you need the original UV's, because you dont know how to make UV's yourself.

So you WILL be using the original model. You have said you are.

Don't blatantly lie and say you're not, to sound like you have some ace up your sleeve. Some magic Mudbox method, to sound like none of the issues that apply to the fundamental process of sculpting will effect you cause your so awesome and know everything. You dont.

Its obvious your having fuckloads of trouble with even the most simple aspect of the process and you feel insecure about it and quote bullshit to compensate for your mental problems.

I like how you threw in the old "My method is taking not much time (for me)", as if to imply its taking a long time for me.

A long time for what? What am i trying to do quickly?

I'm taking my time dipshit. YOU are taking a long time.

You haven't shown a single image of a textured completed sculpt, a baked normal map on a low poly model, an untextured but complete sculpt, NOTHING.

You've done nothing, know nothing, and the longer you piss-fart around talking shit here to sound like you do, the longer you amount to nothing.

Dont forget. Its my hobby/practice, but not a job or a work so i am not sitting everyday 6 hours or more to make it to the end. No, i am not a freak anymore, like it was many years before. I have a RL, big family and a girl too thats why i dont have much time. I am 34 years old man who have more important things to do as only modding games, but may be you are too young to understand it.

Nope. I'll be 33 in may and i struggle to believe you are 34. If you are, then it just reinforces my suspicion of a mental disorder. It cant be just a language barrier that produces such nonsense. I think you honestly believe the rubbish you talk and you HAVE spent far too long in front of a computer, never dealing with the real world.

You talk about not having time to do this all day, yet your back here in a flash to reply. I know, because i work nights / mornings and during the day, you seem to be here all the time.

It looks sometimes like you want simple compete against me and this is for me very strange.

Other way around mate. You simply cant listen to someone correct you, even indirectly, without coming back and replying with bullshit to sound like you're right.

If someone corrects something you say, or says something you don't agree with. You actually don't have to reply. Go google fact-check it and see if they are right. Dont make yourself look like a fool because you're pig-headed shit-house rat crazy. There is nothing wrong with admitting you're wrong. In fact, you don't even have to on the internet, you simply don't reply and go about your day.

Do you remember the infantry skin you have posted in my thread without writing one word? It was very strange.




I dont think so.

Firstly, its not a skin. Its a WIP picture of my Infantry model posted by someone i sent it to.

Second, that person is not me. That person is Kirk Barnes. Author of Quake2XP. Someone who i've been helping to make some new high res menu and hud GFX for. I was using his engine to test my Doom64 textures and offered to help with a few things.

I'm not Barnes, stop trying to be clever and discover my "true identity". I dont even type like Barnes.

I've even provided a link to my project website which proves im not him.

Lol reebok. Not bad idea. The more details the more sugar for the eyes.

Okay small tip. If you dont want to see the strange lines ( i had the same problem ) anymore which comes out during sculpting. It happens because the models/uvs are too "oldskool" and some of them need to be fixed too. Make or generate new (more flat) uv map. There is a tool in 3d max and blender(i am not sure) which could help you to do it with a couple clicks. Write pls if it helped or if you dont understand exactly what i mean.

Okay, so you had a problem with your model and now your sharing some random piece of useless advice to fix it to try and sound knowledgeable.

UV's have nothing to do with the sculpting process. They are only used to bake sculpted detail from a high poly model to a low poly model.

By doing what you just described (if you even did do it), you have edited the UV's and because they are changed, the original skins wont fit the model. You will have to make a new skin to fit the edited UV.

I'm guessing the problem you're having is tearing of the mesh because your either not using enough polygons (remember this), or you have edited the original mesh too much and the polys are too stretched, causing them to tear or create long stretched out "lines".

This was my original reply to your post above and your subsequent reply:

This model doesn't use UV's.

It uses PTEX.

More UV res wont fix triangular distortion, more polys will. But the models topology has a limit to how far you can push it. Once you reach that point, the only option is to retopologize, which is a very handy feature of the latest version.

Watch this from 9:17. It will explain what i mean.

<youtube link>

Your reply:

Hmm. So the PTEX seems to be not very good for the q2 models. What about obj? More polys can help a litlle bit too but it will not solve the problem. Almost every q2 model have the same problem if you use these with some sculpting tools, its because of the old skool construction ( i think that MB dont like it ). idk much about ptex so i will simple flatten and fix the uv. I think it was less than 30� or 40� or something like that.

OMFG..

You dont know anything about PTEX but you tell me that the "problem" is PTEX is not good for quake 2 models? WTF?

I go onto explain in my reply, that PTEX is a UV-less paint system (i've actually explained this before.. yawn) and that it has nothing to do with sculpting.

PTEX not good for quake 2 models? HOW?! What makes a frame from a quake 2 model extracted as an OBJ and then sculpted in Mudbox still the same md2 file? There is nothing distinctively quake 2 about the model or file at all.

IN-FUCKING-SANITY.

My actual (very calm and educating) reply to this was:

This is what i've been telling you about over sculpting the mesh.

The more you sculpt and radically change the mesh from the original shape, the further the original mesh distorts. This is not a problem with the models or anything, its a simple limitation of the models subdivision.

Its like smudging the lines on graph paper. Eventually they merge and become distorted.

In that video you see the box get distorted to a point where any more and it will start to tear and look bad. Retopologizing rebuilds the original mesh and takes note of the new sculpting you have done, updating the shape of the original model, allowing you to continue sculpting.

You wont be able to sculpt the original models very much as the UV's will not tolerate it. Trust me. When i tried to bake the high poly detail from pinky onto the original low poly, it didn't match up. And this is a model i made myself with new high quality UV's.

I highly recommend you do very small amounts of detail, mostly negative sculpting. Try not to add too much volume, as this will cause more issues.

PTEX is amazing.

Its simply a painting system that allows you to paint textures on a model without needing UV's. Its an awesome system and has essentially 100% perfect coverage.

This is the detail possible from with PTEX using a resolution equivalent to 2048x2048. To get detail this high with a normal UV you would probably need a 4096x4096 skin.

<close up picture of models face>

When it comes time for me to make UV's, i will be utilizing as much of the surface area as possible to try and retain some of this detail. My UV's will look bizarre and be almost impossible for someone to edit in traditional ways, but coverage will be very good.

PTEX will eventually replace UV's, but for the moment, im pretty sure UV's are much faster to render. PTEX is used by Pixar and i think AMD has a game demo that uses it. Once GPU's pick up dedicated processors for PTEX, it will be an industry standard. Just like tessellation will eventually mean no more low poly models, ever. All LOD's will be handled by the hardware, so artists can make whatever they like and not worry about slow optimization tricks.

Your reply:

Hmm. Its strange because i dont have such a problems with OBJ after fixing the uv and the only limit i have is my memory

Earlier i said maybe your not using enough polys. You need lots of memory to add more subdivision levels. I guess this proves your system doesn't have enough memory and you cant subdivide more, so the model is leaving low resolution lines and stretched out tears.

Proof people.

The problem disappears almost completely. Even if i use a 1024 pix texture. May be you are doing something wrong. Some setup or something. I will test ptex a litlle bit and i will try to find the problem. BTW I have forgot: Dont forget to set up good the couple options in MB/perfences/paint, and you should not to change too much the shape of the high poly during sculpting because it will look not good or very bad on the base low poly model. For example: Its like a trying to put a square key inside in a round hole or vice versa. If you know what i mean.

What the fuck are you even talking about? What am i doing wrong? When did i mention i was having trouble??

Why are you constantly bringing up irrelevant shit to try and sound educated on the topic? STOP IT!

You say you don't have any trouble, then you say you do have trouble. You contradict yourself in your own replies!

Your like an awkward kid who quotes some bullshit they saw or heard in a movie and everyone looks at each other and laughs thinking "uhh.. wtf?".

I'm seriously sick of you replying in my thread. I was going to ignore it and tolerate it, thinking maybe you had learned something and was going to take it easy, but within only a few replies, your back into the full swing of slinging bullshit.

Please shut the fuck up and stop replying.

Please can a moderator or admin please block him from this thread?

If i put him on my ignore list, will that do it?

[s13n1]

Hopefully an admin can come in and delete all off topic posts, or can i close this myself and start a fresh thread?

Anyway.

A skeletal system would need to be added and then through code, certain constraints given to bones in the body. So the bone in the head would be told to track the player, then once the heads rotational limit reached, the upper body follows until that reaches its limit and then the character has to turn.

This would be pretty subtle and maybe hard to notice in combat, but im sure if you added some additional behavior to the enemies, you could see it in action.

When you're above or below them, you would notice their heads looking up or down at you.

I'm always a fan of seeing enemies watch you, waiting for the right time to attack. This is kinda hard when they are armed with ranged weapons, but an Ogre could be told to never fire off a grenade unless you are within a certain distance above or below him. And because he cant reach you with the chainsaw, he just watches and waits. would look really spooky i reckon.

It could be put to use during idle animations. While they stand around waiting, the head could just slowly pan around, as if they are scanning the room. They could then be given an actual field of view, so if they happen to glance over to where you are, they come to life.

Another great part of skeletal animation systems that use locomotion, is being able to control the feet position, so their feet align to sloped surfaces or actually step up onto steps and higher terrain. Ragdoll stuff is then possible, so the bodies lay flat on uneven terrain, or slide over ledges.

I think the only reason we haven't seen this added to these old games already, is because the animation is vertex and not skeletal. If we had access to the original skeletal systems that animated the models, it would be easy. But once you switch over to a skeletal system, you would need to make all new animations.

Well, im not sure actually. There may be some way you could approximate a skeleton from a model with vertex animation. That might be a good tool for some clever person to write.

Because the original models are such low poly, you could automatically place bones where the vertices are and then apply gravitational forces to them, making sure the volume of the model remains constant, but the body can deform and sit flat on uneven surfaces, or bend and fall over ledges.

Actually, the best option would probably be vertex colours. Paint the feet Red so it knows how to align them to the terrain, paint the upper body Green, and paint the head Blue. You could then control these different colour regions as if they had bones. Editing would be very easy, taking only a few minutes to paint each model.

Any programmers wanna try and implement this?? :-)

I think there's a hell of a lot of little details you could add to old games like Doom, Quake and Quake 2 without upsetting it to much. There's a hell of a lot of stuff i would love to add to quake 2.

I remember reading a pretty enthusiastic report of quake2 when it had only just started to be shown at E3. The reporter was talking about a warehouse level where the lights go out and the only light available is some small very dull red lights. He got quite detailed with the description of "the strogg warriors have infrared vision allowing them to see in the dark". Hehe. No, they just have generic AI that does not factor in lighting conditions..

I imagined a more sophisticated AI, with certain visual abilities. Perhaps visible fields of view that you had to monitor and avoid to not be detected.

I'd really love more sounds for the Strogg. Lots of little servos and metalic sounds when they walk. So it really sounds like a robotic creature is just around the corner.

Quake 4 really missed the mark for me, i think it could have been a really kick arse Quake 2 remake, but they got a little distracted. I'll have to play through it again soon, because i only played through it once and ive now got amuch better PC.

Anyway, here is my first HD Ogre image.



Omg perfect t-pose! ;-)

Nothing special yet, just aligned and mirrored the body and deleted some diagonal edges to convert triangles to quads.

I'll be spending a long time in Max, connected edges and adding more definition to the body and creating the armor. Only once the hard surface stuff is complete, will i import him into MudBox and start sculpting the organic parts.

[gdiddy62]

Looking forward to this standing next to the excellent one by Teamonster!

You guys rock!

[MadGypsy]

A skeletal system would need to be added and then through code, certain constraints given to bones in the body. So the bone in the head would be told to track the player, then once the heads rotational limit reached, the upper body follows until that reaches its limit and then the character has to turn.

I'm doing things like this with my armature. I also have controls that move body groups. For instance in a standard armature where arms and legs are disassociated with the spine. Dipping the spine will leave the shoulders behind. My rig works in such a way that if you dip the chest the shoulders (actually the entire arm) follow and if you dip the lower spine all of it follows. This allows you to get more realistic movement for the torso very quickly.

I started to write an overview of my armature but explaining it is very complex. I backed it up and started to write a tutorial on how to control it instead. I'm still troubleshooting range limits and some tricky parenting. I'm close though.

[_Smith_]

I would also love to see a DX11 engine conversion, so tessellation can be utilized, so all the extra details can be retained and levels can really shine with actual 3D textures.

You don't really need tesselation that much, you can add polys by hand on the "corners" and sticking out parts and let parallax mapping handle the rest. It gives probably better performance to look ratio too, because tesselating everything is not exactly without a cost. Like you say it's good when used as a part of automatic lod system, or to utilize processing power these 3x highend GPU setups.

@Tea Monster, OoPpEe, Alfader, Nergal
Some folks think you can't have parallax working properly on models in DP, but I think they are wrong. The problem is in the default offset scale value.
It looks good on walls, but is way too high for models and displacement is like a half of monster limb thickness and it's all inwards by default, hence the bold black outlines.

There is a shader keyword for DP, to override default parameters, the syntax is:
dpoffsetmapping - SCALE bias BIASVALUE

dpoffsetmapping - SCALE match FLOAT_PIXEL_VALUE_THAT_IS_BASE_LEVEL
dpoffsetmapping - SCALE match8 8BIT_PIXEL_VALUE_THAT_IS_BASE_LEVEL
dpoffsetmapping - SCALE match16 6BIT_PIXEL_VALUE_THAT_IS_BASE_LEVEL

Optional bias parameters determine heightmap value that is interpreted as no displacement, so you can adjust how much inwards, or outwards it goes.
Scale is probably multiplier of a default value set by a cvar, so dpoffsetmapping - 1 match8 255 is probably default. There should be a way to handle this in FTE too.
You guys could generate new normal maps from your sculpts with a heightmap in the alpha value and try to use shader script to make parallax mapping work.

PTEX is amazing.

This PTEX stuff got me interested, because I imagined a pipeline for turning Quake Reforged sculpts into proper models without the need for any artistic skills.
QR guys have made for all Quake monsters original models, what SZA was trying to do, a lot of small details sculpted.

@Alfader, Nergal
Have you guys sculpted on the original models, or have you sculpted flat surface over original UVs ?
Even if the latter, having source sculpt, or height map and UV map, it should be possible to somehow wrap this surface sculpt around the model, right ?

Assuming we have Quake Reforged sculpt on a model either way...
1. Convert UV to PTEX.
2. Improve shape of the model, while keeping sculpted surface details and texturing mostly intact.
3. Retopo it, then convert PTEX to UV and generate norms for new topology.
4. Rig and animate it, using frames of the original model as a reference.

Only basic knowledge of few programs required and a lot of patience, artistic talent and experience is not required. There is no chance I could paint, or sculpt anything worthwhile, but I could learn the above process. You could reuse parts of QR guys work you like, or a talentless hack like me could make some acceptable highpoly models out of it. What do you think, is it possible ?

One thing i have to remind you all is that i'm not here to make more models like this. I came here just to get some ideas for my next sculpt.

Yes, we understand that, I said I don't expect it to actually happen, but we can always discuss it a bit

We have also pretty decent models available for everything except some monsters, there are great and faithful models for Shambler by Andrew Joll and Scraag, Vore by ObiWan from Shamblers Castle Doom3 mod ( there is also Fiend by him, but I am not a big fan of ). These models are faithful and have enough polys to not need retopo, just sculpts and textures are low detail and could use an overhaul. There is Tea Monster's Ogre, it's well made, but a mixed bag conceptually for me, I see you've started an Ogre from scratch already, anyway. I am looking forward to it. Finally there are also sculpts made by Quake Reforged guys I mentioned earlier.

Few guys here can rig and animate and few more could try to learn it. Frames of original models can be used as reference, so anyone who can learn some basic stuff about blender could do it. So you could consider it to be done, sooner or later. You would have to do it yourself only if you wanted to improve over original animations.

What I am trying to say is, that by being smart about using existing work as a starting point and outsourcing mundane tasks, maybe you could save yourselves some work.

You know its crossed my mind to crowdfund such things, but when you take into consideration the time it takes, you have to put a pretty substantial dollar value on it. Ten grand wouldn't be out of the question for that kind of work, per game. An industry professional would ask a hell of a lot more i imagine.

Forget about crowd funding imo. There is simply not enough interest in this, ~15k people bothered to download one of the Quake HD compilations past two years, how many of them actually played it ? How many of them would be willing to throw lets say 10$ for just few new models ? Maybe you would collect 1k $ ? Not to mention that you could make yourself a target for Bethesda lawyers... You find an entertainment in it, or treat it as a learning experience, or you don't do it.


Disclaimer:
I am a noob. I am just reading about stuff and try to guess how it's done.
I haven't tried, to actually learn to do most of the stuff I was writing about in this post, yet.

[s13n1]

I'll have to double check, but im pretty sure you could import an obj of the original quake models with UV and texture, then convert it to PTEX. If you didn't overcook the sculpt, you could follow the original skin and add some additional details.

Good idea. Hopefully it wouldn't distort too much, because it could be really hard in some places.

It might be better to subdivide once in max first, then in mudbox, convert to ptex, and then prior to sculpting, use the grab tool to move vertices around, add some extra volume, then finish off with sculpt.

The most important part of this process is that by converting to ptex, you no longer have to worry about the sculpt messing with the original UVs too much. One finished and you retopo a new base mesh, you just make a new UV and tweak it till you get the best results.

This is something Sza just would not listen to. Would never admit he was having any trouble, but even a noob like me could deconstruct his comments and see he was.

If anyone does any UV mapping. Go find the demo for Unfold3D. Version 7. Very hard to find, but has a feature called "stamper" which allows you to export an obj with you UV intact. This essentially bypasses the demos save limitation. You have yourself a $1000 program for free and legal too. The devs fixed newer versions, so it has to be version 7. Good luck finding it, took me quite a while of digging through dead links and bogus files. I could upload to drop box and pm link if need be?

Anyway, it all sounds like a good idea, I'll give it a shot after work, on the Grunt.

I'd like to see how height maps look on the monsters with your suggestions for reversed porojection. My only issue with pom and why I like tessellation, is pom creates a small overlap top and bottom (on wall textures), where the texture starts to repeat. I'm sure changing the projection to outwards, like the monster skins, might change this, but I've never tried.

I'm a total noob with shaders. This is why I was making textures as well, to catch up on modern texturing techniques.

I'll have to chat with Barnes and see if there is a way I can alter the pom projection in Quake2XP. I think he based the pom on DP anyway? There are some cmds for pom type and strength, but not sure about any others. Might have to define such things in a material file perhaps?

[Tea Monster]

Just MHO, but you would be much better off creating new low poly models than using the original Id models. Everyone loves them, but they are not really fit for purpose when it comes to creating next-gen game assets. It's like getting a brick and putting a really good photo of a person around it and telling everyone that it looks just like a person. Even if you get some fancy program to round off the edges of the brick, it still isn't going to work.

I know that DP supports IQM format, which has bones. Not really sure if it fully supports skeletal animations, and if so, how you control them. I'm assuming you would have to get your hands dirty with Quake C (or just maybe C), not sure.

Ptex is the future, but I think that support on the ground amongst 3D apps is spotty at best. I don't think that either ZBrush or Blender support it. This will change, but just not sure when.

I think your ideas for AI are superb. I'd love a monster that deliberately let me know I'd seen it, but it knew it couldn't get to me. Could they taunt you? Sounds great.

[_Smith_]

@Alfader, Nergal
Is it possible for you guys to release sources of your sculpts ?

It's like getting a brick and putting a really good photo of a person around it and telling everyone that it looks just like a person. Even if you get some fancy program to round off the edges of the brick, it still isn't going to work.

Ingame illusion is pretty good at some angles though, and with bricks rounded and parallax instead of only normal like QR textures are now, the illusion could be from all angles as good as it is in the best cases now. I fully agree it's nowhere as great as you or s13n1 can pull off in weeks of honest hard work. It's just an idea for an ugly shortcut for a talentless and lazy hack like me, that crossed my mind It's probably a wishfull thinking steeming from my ignorance anyway, thats why I ask someone smarter for opinion.

As for more advanced stuff like some skeleton physical reactions you guys discuss here, it would probably be less work to port Quake gamecode into some modern engine rich SDK, with toolsets and libraries to handle that kind of stuff, than to try strangle DP or FTE into doing it. Either way its way out of my league

[MadGypsy]

Few guys here can rig and animate

I'm one of the few. Gimme a model and just make sure it's in a format that can be opened in some version of blender. As stated I also need the original model for animation reference. If it's a humanoid model, I even already have one hell of a rig for it. If it's not humanoid, whatever, I could build a rig from scratch. Actually I'd be more than happy to. I could add to my rig library (which currently has one almost done rig... )

[Solecord]

Ok guys, I've deleted a bunch of off-topic posts. If I deleted on that shouldn't have been... my bad. Sza has been banned. Continue on...

[s13n1]

Awesome.

Thanks for that!

Update.

Basic detail layer.

About 2.5 hours work so far, 2 of which has been trying to capture that crazed expression and transform it into 3D.

Still lots to do, but its a start.



I'm thinking the lower half of his oufit will be thick worn leather, like a really extreme blacksmith vest. This will be hung via leather straps that run over the shoulders and connect over the back above the butt.

The vest underneath will be weathered worn copper, with lots of dents and ripples.