HD Models

[Spike]

angry and agressive faces are all well and good and all, but they tend to look a bit stupid on a corpse, as do clenched fists.
needs toenails.

[_Smith_]

I'm just making him based on how ive always known him. Each to their own.

Sure thing.

I was actually not liking the feet so i changed them..

Agree, even if I would prefer another direction, at this point he become too humanoid and animal feet looked maybe a bit out of place.

I'd drop his shoulders a bit. He looks too rigid

Disagree, it makes him look tense, dangerous and keeps silhouette familiar. Please, don't make him another silly, clumsy fatso.

[Tea Monster]

The expression is a fine bit of facial chiseling. It fits with the character and style you've gone for. I think it's brilliant and I'd keep it.

[DeadTenor]

Either foot would be fine, in my subjective opinion. I am not sure how others feel, but I am not looking at their feet most the time anyway. It looks very good so far.

I've always just thought it was highlights on the edges of the mouth

I'm in the same boat about the tusks-- Quake was so low-rez, low-poly, and working with a limited color palette back in the day that it wasn't until many years later with re-done artwork that I noticed they were even there. If they are added, my suggestion would be to make them very subtle.

[s13n1]

Different facial expressions would be good, and could be done easily by just loading different heads or models. You could animate them, but its a lot of work that a lot of will be missed.

You could do it with the original models with different skins. Add blinking, a death face, a neutral face, angry face, pain face, scared face and a triumphant face for when they've killed you.

I used to think they might have been experimenting with this for the original game, because of the different eyes and faces on some of the skins, but I think it was just experiments to get the best expression.

I really like shaders for blending normal maps. You can see it action in GTA5 when the characters walk, the ripples in their clothes change and move. Looks good. I wanna look into something similar for dinosaurs, add rippling skin folds around their legs and stomach as they walk.

There are toenails on the model already, but they're not super noticeable.

The original ogre feet are a bit strange. From front on, the skin looks a bit rhino/elephant. Then as you rotate, it changes to humanoid and the skin is distorted. Its an unusual design.

Although he is a fantasy character, I still couldn't stop looking at his foot from an evolutionary standpoint. It just didn't make sense. I thought big fat toes on a stubby foot would look a lot better.

I think he will really start to change once I start painting the texture and adding finer details. Blood on the face will remove any confusion about his expressions and he will just start to look more ogre once that outfit comes together.

[talisa]

both feet look good imo

i liked the rhino-like feet, but the human-ish stubby feet look good on him too.
just go with what you feel works best for him


and yeah... the original models legs are a tad odd.
ID made a lot of things look odd and sometimes it can be really hard to try and figure out what they were trying to go for
cuz of the extremely low poly-count and the low resolution textures

so as i said.... just go with what you feel works best for him

[Seven]

Hello s13n1,

Regarding the expression on his face:
Why not make his face expression different for different animation sequences ?
This has not been done often in Quake yet.
Only preach made it for his replacement ogre based on drawing by meltslime :



You do not need different head models for this. It can all be done in 1 model.
Preach�s ogre has different facial expressions when walking, pain, death, attacks for example:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHN4aGqeikY]Quake ogre with facial expressions by preach - YouTube[/ame]

It is done via a modeling trick and doesn�t need modified game mechanics.
Preach wrote about it in his readme of the ogre.
His ogre is a standard .mdl format.




Regarding ogre�s tusks:
Maybe this pictures can be useful for inspiration ? Just an idea...





Regarding the details on his body:
You do not need to make him look perfect without a texture already.
The texture can take care of a LOT of details.
You may want to save some details to stay in an acceptable poly count.
The texture can many times do the job (if you are a good painter).
The better your skills in painting, the less details you need in modeling.
Some engines are capable of parallax / offsetmapping, which makes this effect even better.

That should not mean of course, that you can pin a photorealistic skin (from Quake Reforged) on the original ogre model and expect him to look beautiful from every angle…

The golden middle is the best way for it in my opinion (as so often in life…)

Kind regards and best wishes,
Seven

[hgdagon]

I like it very much!!! It's awesome. I would also prefer the rhino legs.... But again, if that's your vision of the model, so be it. But just please make the apron a bit longer, I don't wanna see his jewels in game

[webangel]

...But just please make the apron a bit longer, I don't wanna see his jewels in game

wtf. You are right about this.

...
Regarding the expression on his face:
Why not make his face expression different for different animation sequences ?
This has not been done often in Quake yet....

@Seven,
your idea should be a nice feature since no other Q1 model I know had it.

Very nice work so far s13n1!

[Seven]

Different facial expressions would be good [...] You could animate them, but its a lot of work that a lot of will be missed.

... your idea should be a nice feature since no other Q1 model I know had it.

Hello,

s13n1 is correct: "a lot of will be missed"
You can confirm this by the fact, that already several other replacement monsters have some kind of face animation, but they are not all noticed due to the fast paced game, which Quake is.

The almost constant action and fast moving enemies makes details almost not visible (except their last death frame, as Spike mentioned).
Even though these details look fantastic when viewed in slowmotion (I recorded some in a short clip below to better see them), they get kinda lost in-game.

I think that face animation is very common in modern games.
As it doesnt really matter if you raise a monsters arm or if you raise his mouth-lip. Both things are animated the same way, but are of course not identicaly visible in-game. The effort is quite huge though, as s13n1 pointed out.

Some existing replacement monsters with mouth movement:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqt3HqJfi6k&list=UUbX7uVIXqMzBza0YmLJuMdw]Quake slowmo monsters with mouth movement - YouTube[/ame]

As far as I can see Tea Monster skipped this for his ogre as well. Which is not an issue at all, like mentioned above.


I am excited to see s13n1�s animations. The model looks more than promising.
Keep up the good work s13n1 !

[Tea Monster]

I don't think I did.

It's all done with bones when you animate the model. You could have it winking at the player if you really wanted to, you just need to set up a face rig as well as the arms, legs, etc.

I'm thinking that if s13n1 smooths out the face to get a more 'normal' look, he's going to really struggle to put that expression back on with animation.

JMHO, but I'd leave it as it is.

[webangel]

@Seven
Of course you are right about the details - no one sees it in game.
But there are some crazy peoples (like me) who like to watch at this things again and again and again in noclip/target.

I think you can understand what Im talking about.



s13n1s work is great. I love Tea Monsters and Preachs Ogre too.
The knights you modded are quite good as well but they need new textures....

I want a new zombie model. It could be so easy if "shamblers castle" dont uses D3 Zombie for this....

[s13n1]

I'm still a noob at all this, but I think if I bake this angry face onto a low poly mesh, then work on an alternative face without the aggression, it could be baked into the same low poly mesh as long as its still the same basic topology.

That way the mouth could be animated, and the normal maps with the wrinkled face can be loaded to portray all that extra face movement.

So you could have a pretty neutral face, but for pain, anger and death frames, load in the angry face normals.

I think when we have tessellation as a standard feature in all games, we won't be dealing with normal maps on characters like this, just very high poly models. Then the methods used for facial animation and capture will become much more common.

I think a web cam and some face paint / makeup is a pretty common solution. Then just match the facial reference points with bones or whatever other controllers they use to animate the face.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see real time integration into multiplayer games using players web cams. That way you can see the expression and emotion on your opponents face when you knife kill them in the back for the 8th time.

[The_Corn_Crib]

These are great. I certainly hope and think you're Tresspasser project will go well.

[Dutch]

I actually meant to say this a long time ago, and I just remembered. I can't believe there's another person out there who likes Trespasser. I used to play that game all the time when it was new. I'll be the first to admit it was clunky and almost unplayable sometimes in game mechanics and physics. But it was a helluva lot of fun. If you're going to keep upgrading the game, I'm curious to see how it works out.