WorldSpawn official WIP thread

[MadGypsy]

@Man, I really wish you were coding for Quake!

Well, that's sort of the point. My engine will do things quake engines don't do. It already does. There will be numerous reasons NOT to use a quake engine to build games when I am done. Games made in my engine won't work in a Quake engine unless some engine coder starts updating a quake engine to do the things my engine does. Do you know, you can use .obj for worlds in my engine and completely forget about BSP anything if you want. There are some pretty serious implications in doing this, mostly dealing with light but, it's in there and ready to go. Also, if you use obj I have collision detection ready to go via a physics engine. Technically, I could mostly build a properly functioning game right now if I just stop fucking with BSP.

I post about a lot of things here but, I don't post about everything. I even have a physics based collision detection working off of height maps... There's a lot more going on here than y'all know and I can't take credit for all of it cause some of this is built into my 3d api but, I have added plenty plenty on my own.

[Mugwump]

@JSON Yes, that's what I meant by "javascript thingy". What I don't understand is if you only use its structure for YOUR work, how can you possibly have no clue what certain parameters do?

There will be numerous reasons NOT to use a quake engine to build games when I am done.

That's great but of little use to a Quake mapper/modder. I know your goal is to build an engine for game devs, not modders, but I wish some of this mojo would be applicable to Quake.

[MadGypsy]

@MY work...not know

Cause I'm not applying it to MY work. I did not code the lights into my api or the particles.

Look at it this way. Somebody wrote (ex) a particle API. I have access to all of their code and can therefore mirror their interface in JSON BUT, that doesn't mean I have any clue what any of it actually does.

I did not write this

public function ParticleAnimationSet(usesDuration:Boolean = false, usesLooping:Boolean = false, usesDelay:Boolean = false)
{
	//automatically add a particle time node to the set
	addAnimation(_timeNode = new ParticleTimeNode(usesDuration, usesLooping, usesDelay));
}

but I can see right there in the interface that it accepts 3 vars (uses)Duration/Looping/Delay. I can also see that all 3 of those vars are Booleans (true|false). That all being said, I can then write exceptions in my code that allow you to do the below in JSON.

"animationSet":
{	"useDelay":true
},

where any missing value is defaulted and my script ultimately does this

var animation:ParticleAnimationSet = new ParticleAnimationSet(animationSet.useDuration, animationSet.useLooping, animationSet.useDelay)

see? I don't have to know what I'm doing at all to make this possible. I just have to be able to read.

My JSON is nothing but a way for you to fill in the expected blanks externally.... Well, for light and particles anyway. Some of my descriptor is custom and doesn't work this way. Like setting x_noir for instance doesn't just get dumped in a function. Each noir variable is assigned in my new descriptor class or gets defaulted to false in it's absence. When I need to check if this stuff is true/false to finally set something it's something like this

if(Descriptor.LIGHT_NOIR)
	//noir the lights

or more specifically, it's exactly like this...where bmd is bitmap data and blend is "add", "multiply", or some such thing

	if(bmd != null)
	{	if (Descriptor.PARTICLE_NOIR)
			bmd = TextureTools.noir(bmd);
				
		material = new TextureMaterial(Cast.bitmapTexture(bmd));
		material.blendMode = blend;
	} else throw new Error("Particle: Image does not exist in the Library.");

See how the bitmap data gets caught and noir'ed (if necessary) before it is finalized as a Material?

[nahuel]

Also, if you use obj I have collision detection ready to go via a physics engine. Technically, I could mostly build a properly functioning game right now if I just stop fucking with BSP.

Really interesting, if you make a material system (shaders), some glsl work, iqm and/or md3 use, and something like a qc interpreter (or similar) your engine will be really easy to use for quake modders

[Mugwump]

I get it now. I don't understand all the code despite most of it being in plain english, but your explanation was perfect. Thanks.

[MadGypsy]

@nahuel

I have md5 and md3.

there will never be true glsl shaders because my engine uses agal

this engine will have no game-code at all re: this post

[MadGypsy]

All your bass are belong to me

film grain

[Mugwump]

Aaaaaaarrrhhh!!! Stop adding features to your not-Quake engine that I talk about wanting in Quake!
Kidding aside, TBH it doesn't look very good yet - it doesn't seem fine enough, is much too noticeable and washes the image out a bit, but I'm not too worried about that considering your progress with the torch flame.

[MadGypsy]

You want to know a secret? It's totally fake. I just took a picture of static and dumped it on the stage.

I do intend to really make it a feature though. I'm trying to figure out how to make perlin noise move. I'm kinda stuck.

I thought it would be funny cause first there was the film noir thing (which isn't fake obv) and then nahuel makes film grain...and then I have film grain. I'll just keep reproducing everything everyone else is doing

[MadGypsy]

@BFG - why is it so important to you that my engine be a quake engine? It supports:

BSP29/BSP2/2PSB
MD5/MD3
Replacement Textures
I'll totally have at the very least all the quake map entities
There wont be any code to write to invent games
I've already started on my own Radiant Gamepack and I could just as easily make gamepacks for any other map editor that supports gamepacks
There is already numerous ways to create external modifications and I assure you there will be more before this is all over
I have particles/light
lit files

fog, noir, film grain (trust me it will be there) more more more

What is it exactly that you need a Quake engine for?

Then there's the extras

Shoutcast/Local playlist streamer
I'm about 50% done with an mp4/flv recorder
You can even use video as a texture...and it works awesome

I've also made numerous simple tools that help me create/compile/organize/audit various files

You can store your game in a zip and the folder structure is completely irrelevant. My engine don't care about folders and directories. It cares about extensions. Using a manifest file you can skip the zip and store the files unzipped. It still doesn't care about folders cause you tell the manifest exactly where the files you want to include are. In other words no-matter-what you can create your own game directory structures.

I'm maybe 50 or so lines from being able to modify particles/light (almost) real-time. The "almost" part is you will have to press R to see the changes.

What is so important about my engine supporting Quake?

IMO, I'm already smoking a bunch of quake engines, in flash, and I'm not even close to done.

AND, I assure you that before this is all over my engine will be optimized to death. I know what the limits are and I intend perform straight up magic to mitigate things that hurt performance. Let there be no doubt. My "figure it out" engine is going to be BAD-ASS. FTE/DP bad-ass? Probably not..no BUT also yeah, that bad-ass in it's own regard. There are some things that I simply cannot do with any expectation of it being good but, that doesn't mean my engine will be junky in any way.

[Mugwump]

I also talked about film scratches...

Seriously though, I was googling Perlin noise when I came across something about animating it here: Understanding Perlin Noise
Hope this can help.

why is it so important to you that my engine be a quake engine?

Because I'm a Quaker? It's not that, actually. It's just that you first presented it as a Quake engine and now you're saying it won't be and you keep on adding cool features... It's a bit like teasing a kid with ice cream and then gulping it in front of him, if you know what I mean. I'm a player and I'm trying to be a mapper, but I'm certainly no game dev so I won't have any use for it. That said, I'm not telling you to back up and make it for Quake, we already have plenty of engines. I'm just a tad disappointed because of your original presentation of it as a Quake engine.

[MadGypsy]

I NEVER presented it as a quake engine. In my Real Flash Quake thread I made it very clear this wouldn't be a Quake engine and if I ever called it a Quake engine it was because those 2 words go together on this site. I have actually said this wont be a quake engine about 50 times (ie quite a lot). I did however say this would be a quake capable engine utilizing quake tech. And that's true. If someone wanted to make quake possible in my engine they would "simply" have to redo the entire game to conform to my system. They would have to go to every map and change every single entity to have the proper names and values and LOTS and LOTS of other stuff but, it's totally possible. I'm doing that on purpose. If I made a Quake engine it would be just another Quake engine.

You say as a mapper you would have no use for my engine. On the contrary as a mapper you would have FAR FAR FAR more control than any quake engine that has ever been built by anyone ever, including Spike, Lord_Havoc and anyone else you could possibly name. The whole point of my engine is to put the power in the map editor. I'm not sure why you think you would have no use for that. I'm providing you unlimited creativity as a mapper. Sure, my map entities will be more complicated but, they also wont be. How deep you want to go is up to you.

[MadGypsy]

Have you ever heard of a "160 in 1"? It's basically a motherboard with a bunch of different components on it and filled up with a bunch of tight springs that are the connections for each component. It comes with a shit load of wires and a book with 160 diagrams that show you which wires to connect to which springs in order to create simple electronic things like a crystal radio, morse code tapper and other stuff.

I am building the 3d engine version of that toy except the map editor will be the actual toy. It's already a little bit like that for making quake maps. Consider a teleporter setup or most things that you have to trigger. Where my method will differ is you can connect a lot more things to create much more complicated things. Making a quake map is like playing with a "15 in 1". I intend to expand greatly on the possibilities by making more generic entities. When you understand the entities it's really up to you what can be built. The only limit will be your imagination and if you are really really thorough and genius...my imagination.

This is your current map editor


Welcome to your new map editor


I wish I still had that. That toy rocked!

[Mugwump]

Yeah, uh, "Real Flash Quake" doesn't exactly sound like never presenting it as a Quake engine... To be fair, I haven't read that thread much and in this one, you said it wouldn't be only once IIRC, and quite recently.

I'm not sure why you think you would have no use for that.

Because you said you weren't making an engine for mappers or modders, but for game devs, which entails much more than map making. Plus, if I understood you correctly, if I wanted to make a Quake map using your engine, I'd first have to do all that stuff you mentioned about converting entities etc... I have no desire to make engine-specific maps, on the contrary I'll try to do everything I can to ensure compatibility with at least the most popular Quake engines.

[MadGypsy]

Well, I guess it's not for you.

@much more than map making

I'm starting to feel like a broken record and it's annoying me. If after all that you still don't get that the map editor is the game editor I don't know what to tell you. I'm starting to lose faith in your comprehension skills. It's like you refuse to accept that you open the map editor and make a fuckin game. That's it. You make a game basically the exact same way that you make a map.

In the case of external files there will be very little reason for you to ever edit them.

@Yeah, uh, "Real Flash Quake" doesn't exactly sound like never presenting it as a Quake engine.

And Alex Jones doesn't sound like Time. Content, man. Content. If you are going to base everything on what I title it you will never know what I'm talking about.