A Note About kimp

[Demiurge]

That may be true, but rather than talk about my opinion, what is your opinion?

Do you think that in general most people with an opinion are persuaded by Mastersplinter? If the answer is no, like I believe, what harm is he causing? And if the answer is none, what is wrong with me being amused by the length he goes to entertain us with these incredulous "versions" of "you see, what had really happened was"?

So the short version of my opinion is the extent of how funny his stretches of his version of events become. I don't think anyone close to these situations is seriously persuaded. But it is a high quality source of entertainment.

You ask whether I think in general most people with an opinion are persuaded by Master Splinter. In an ideal world, each person would arrive at his or her conclusions with entirely unbiased reason. Yet, the history of learned & personal experience and the initial statements of Solecard in this thread overwhelmingly illustrate that overcoming the influence of bias and fallacy to arrive at reasonable conclusions is a perpetual burden.

For instance, Solecard stated at the beginning of this thread, "I have talked with [Kimp] and he has agreed to behave," and "after much deliberation and the recent actions of members it seems that people have forgiven [Kimp] for the past actions." Clearly, although Kimp has a credibly documented history of engaging in criminal and antisocially destructive acts, and Master Splinter has a conspicuous history of acting as apologist for Kimp, deductively bias and/or fallacy has influenced Solecard's decision.

Not only has Solecard excused Kimp's de facto criminal acts, Solecard hasn't justified yet why it is that he unilaterally overturned several polls that have demanded Kimp be banned with an "executive decision." This reminds us that negotiating the lines among power, truth, and justice is often more satisfactorily accomplished in more inclusively participatory forms of leadership. The desire for a benevolent dictator is like that of a child who doesn't want to leave mommy and daddy. I don't know about you, but I don't need a mommy or daddy. Because when one does show up, it's usually a good bet that he or she is there to screw the kids who feel too powerless to stand up for themselves.

Many here might agree that justice for Kimp would not only include his banishment from servers and this forum, it would also include the rightful pursuit of criminal charges against him. So only banning him is already an act of mercy. And yet finally I disappointingly witness you praising Master Splinter, a deceptive apologist for Kimp's criminal and antisocial acts.

I would like to suggest to you that greater freedom from bias and fallacy begins by asking yourself how you would know if your conclusions weren't true. And that's because there is often ample, valid evidence to support a position, but when you deliberately search for valid evidence that conflicts with your position, reason will more often than not force you to improve your original position in ways you may yet have envisioned. By the way, this is essentially what that advancement over truth is that you say you value so highly.

For example, the recent financial meltdown is an instance of systemic failures to seek contradictory evidence to prevailing models. Leaders including Greenspan will say things like, we didn't see it coming. Of course they didn't. They never made the effort to uncover contrary evidence. Any evidence to the contrary that did per chance surface was discarded by the Gambler's fallacy.

I would also like to suggest that by your saying that you don't believe Master Splinter persuades most people who already have an opinion, you're committing the fallacy of Composition. Although some people might have various opinions, it doesn't mean that the whole group couldn't have improved their opinion through being party to more credible information and discussion.

As you're a moderator, why can't it be reasonable for participants here to expect you to lead a more informed discussion?

[Baker]

Solecard hasn't justified yet why it is that he unilaterally overturned several polls that have demanded Kimp be banned with an "executive decision."

As you're a moderator, why can't it be reasonable for participants here to expect you to lead a more informed discussion?

I can spot someone with an entitlement complex. You don't so much as run or pay for a server and as far as I know haven't even done so much as admin a server or try to organize a tournament. Solecord, Yellow No. 5, Bam, R00k, Mindzfield and I invested a ton of time to build this site and make a better Quake experience, whether CAx, CTF, RQuake, DM+ or engines like Qrack or ProQuake and features like anti-wallhack.

And now you want to go on and on and on with freshmen textbook discussion of arguing styles?

This forum is founded on free speech. You may not like what MasterSplinter has to say, but it is just words in a forum about a great game that is 14 years old. It isn't the end of the world.

Or the fact that Solecord has decided to experiment with the idea of Kimp being unbanned. And you may not like it. But that's for Solecord to decide, he hosts this site for free and maintains the backend almost entirely.

You might continue to be unhappy for how the site is run for quite a while. Everyone does the best they can do, but they can't please everyone. And in this case, I guess you are stuck being part of the "everyone that can't be pleased".

[Baker]

Demiurge, the above post may seem a bit blunt, perhaps slightly more than I intended.

Everyone who helps run this site and this community are volunteers. We all try the best we can. There are never any easy answers.

Solecord feels that allowing Kimp to participate in the forums with a "one-strike and you are out policy" is something he wants to try. So be it. I wouldn't have done it personally, but this site is administered with mutual trust and friendship and respect so there will be no argument from me and I hope it works out for the best.

And I've said several times that I think MasterSplinter effectively is "good at spinning a yarn" or maybe others would use the term "Master bullshitter" -- we all know this about him. It's ok to laugh and be amused at it.

Games getting screwed up? Do I care? Absolutely. I want to get this solved, but real life exists too and until R00k or some unknown force of engine coding happens to spontaneously solve server administration issues out of the blue, it is gonna have to be ME. And it royally sucks, but I'm busy as hell in real life right now and it pains me that I care a great deal but I do not have the time to write new server administration features yet.

This sucks. Like you, I want it all and I want it now. Except I flat out do not have the time right now.

And perhaps I was slightly perturbed that for the 999th time, someone in the forum demands that the forum be run in some particular way --- sheesh ... do you know how many times someone has done that to me? I don't even have enough fingers and toes to count THIS YEAR ALONE and it's only been 4 months into this year. It has been done to me in some shape or form without exaggeration, well over 100 times where someone has demanded how the forum must be run or who must be banned or how my personal opinion or such is sending the wrong message.

We are all volunteers and we all love this game; we do the best we can.

[Demiurge]

I can spot someone with an entitlement complex. You don't so much as run or pay for a server and as far as I know haven't even done so much as admin a server or try to organize a tournament. Solecord, Yellow No. 5, Bam, R00k, Mindzfield and I invested a ton of time to build this site and make a better Quake experience, whether CAx, CTF, RQuake, DM+ or engines like Qrack or ProQuake and features like anti-wallhack.

And now you want to go on and on and on with freshmen textbook discussion of arguing styles?

This forum is founded on free speech. You may not like what MasterSplinter has to say, but it is just words in a forum about a great game that is 14 years old. It isn't the end of the world.

Or the fact that Solecord has decided to experiment with the idea of Kimp being unbanned. And you may not like it. But that's for Solecord to decide, he hosts this site for free and maintains the backend almost entirely.

You might continue to be unhappy for how the site is run for quite a while. Everyone does the best they can do, but they can't please everyone. And in this case, I guess you are stuck being part of the "everyone that can't be pleased".

I admire and appreciate the investment of a ton of time in building this site, improving Quake clients, and making a better Quake experience for everyone that you, Solecard, Yellow No. 5, Bam, R00k, and Mindzfield have contributed. If I were you I might feel the same regarding challenges to my contribution and would add that the issue isn't whether I feel entitled, but how you'll continue to responsibly make a better experience with this free speech forum. And I'm curious to know what would I have to do or say to get that to happen?

Can I ask you now to please tell me namely from which freshman textbook is that discussion of argument styles taken? That idea is entirely new to me. Wouldn't you agree that it is better to elaborate than to have had insultingly over-simplified to say that anyone who praises Master Splinter is just as much a conniving feces-chucker as he is?

The fact Kimp has engaged in documented criminal and antisocial acts means that if he's permitted, there is a very high likelihood he'll do more harm. What makes allowing Kimp back so important? What does this give us that we wouldn't otherwise have? And if it does give us something, why can't we discover a way to do it without Kimp? If it's for Kimp's sake, then there appears to be no criterion that values the opinions recorded in previous polls.

You're probably already aware that my happiness isn't related to how this site is run. I know that everyone does the best they can, but they can't please everyone. I also know that the more flexibly minded you are, the more solutions you discover, and that means you can inspire more people to cooperate.

And if you were to ask my simple advice, I'd tell you this. A failure to please someone occurs because you're unwilling or unable to do so. And that's OK. In either case, the most sensible response often is honestly explaining what's stopping you and offering what you can. Choosing anything else can make things worse for the both of you.

[Demiurge]

Demiurge, the above post may seem a bit blunt, perhaps slightly more than I intended.

Everyone who helps run this site and this community are volunteers. We all try the best we can. There are never any easy answers.

Solecord feels that allowing Kimp to participate in the forums with a "one-strike and you are out policy" is something he wants to try. So be it. I wouldn't have done it personally, but this site is administered with mutual trust and friendship and respect so there will be no argument from me and I hope it works out for the best.

And I've said several times that I think MasterSplinter effectively is "good at spinning a yarn" or maybe others would use the term "Master bullshitter" -- we all know this about him. It's ok to laugh and be amused at it.

Games getting screwed up? Do I care? Absolutely. I want to get this solved, but real life exists too and until R00k or some unknown force of engine coding happens to spontaneously solve server administration issues out of the blue, it is gonna have to be ME. And it royally sucks, but I'm busy as hell in real life right now and it pains me that I care a great deal but I do not have the time to write new server administration features yet.

This sucks. Like you, I want it all and I want it now. Except I flat out do not have the time right now.

And perhaps I was slightly perturbed that for the 999th time, someone in the forum demands that the forum be run in some particular way --- sheesh ... do you know how many times someone has done that to me? I don't even have enough fingers and toes to count THIS YEAR ALONE and it's only been 4 months into this year. It has been done to me in some shape or form without exaggeration, well over 100 times where someone has demanded how the forum must be run or who must be banned or how my personal opinion or such is sending the wrong message.

We are all volunteers and we all love this game; we do the best we can.

The first and most important thing I'd like to say is that I highly respect and appreciate your taking the time to go come back and clarify your thoughts. Echoing my previous post, I appreciate all that you and the others do. If there aren't any reasonable solutions to some things yet or if there aren't enough resources yet to accomplish things we'd like, then that's OK. I'm impressed with where things have come, and I'll look forward to good things in the future.

I better understand the situation with Kimp. I won't rehash it here because I've said as much as I have to say about it in my previous posts.

It's not the laughing at Master Splinter that concerns me, it's praising him that does. I honestly believe that praise from a respected person represents a high value and is better reserved for those that deserve it.

Finally, I want to clarify my own remarks. I continue to recognise that I am in no position to tell you or any other admin how to run the site. Rather, in those situations, all I intend to do is describe what I'm experiencing now, what outcome I'd prefer, and to ask what would make it possible. If it seems I'm conveying anything else, it's likely because of defects in my own writing or the nature of my writing style, but never my intention.

Thank you again, Baker. And if I can assist in any way, please feel free to let me know.

[Solecord]

For instance, Solecard stated at the beginning of this thread, "I have talked with [Kimp] and he has agreed to behave," and "after much deliberation and the recent actions of members it seems that people have forgiven [Kimp] for the past actions." Clearly, although Kimp has a credibly documented history of engaging in criminal and antisocially destructive acts, and Master Splinter has a conspicuous history of acting as apologist for Kimp, deductively bias and/or fallacy has influenced Solecard's decision.

Not only has Solecard excused Kimp's de facto criminal acts, Solecard hasn't justified yet why it is that he unilaterally overturned several polls that have demanded Kimp be banned with an "executive decision." This reminds us that negotiating the lines among power, truth, and justice is often more satisfactorily accomplished in more inclusively participatory forms of leadership. The desire for a benevolent dictator is like that of a child who doesn't want to leave mommy and daddy. I don't know about you, but I don't need a mommy or daddy. Because when one does show up, it's usually a good bet that he or she is there to screw the kids who feel too powerless to stand up for themselves.

First off, it's Solecord!

I explained why I came to my decision in the first post:

After much deliberation and the recent actions of members it seems that people have forgiven him for the past actions.

which was referencing this post:

http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-tal...-aim-list.html

as well as a few other posts that have been removed (started by kimp's dupe accounts).

[Panix]

First off, it's Solecord!

I explained why I came to my decision in the first post:



which was referencing this post:

http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-tal...-aim-list.html

as well as a few other posts that have been removed (started by kimp's dupe accounts).

I still think he's a huge queer and needs to die in a fire. Does that count?

[Shok]

u peple r to smrt for me i dun undastand
i want be loyer liek u won day

[MasterSplinter]

Demiurge,

If I am a babbling vagina, then you are a percolating asshole.

You see someone recovering from a social disaster, making baby steps towards recovery and social acceptance, and you want to push him down and shoot him in the head...calling it good... that's your means to an end... So you can feel like you've accomplished something in your pathetic life. Screw any lessons learned, screw anyone else's stake in the subject, screw humanity and the people who benefit from the ones you are crucifying.

Kimp's disposition has been radically sensationalized by those who feel they need to over compensate to keep the hate train rolling. They have made a celebratory out of him... his popularity was not born of his own wit, but of those who feel they need to struggle to keep him down... like yourself.

Instead of allowing him enough slack to hang himself, you keep the tension tight, securing his role as a victim. He's on a short leash, and I can't believe that is not a good enough position for you... You are undermining your own effect. Like a bully, you would like to give him some candy, and then slap it out of his hands... Give him the GOD DAM CANDY... I think Kimp is being bated... I am very interested in what he will do with the candy. To your benefit... if he acts up... as you predict, it would be a major win for you and all the other haters out there... I'd be a douche for aiding a douche... but... your actions and voice tell me that you fear his success... and that makes you a douche.

[Shok]

I'd be a douche for aiding a douche... but... your actions and voice tell me that you fear his success... and that makes you a douche.

What happened to spintastic, artistic arguementationalism

[Magnus]

Splint, you're the one who is delusional.

His behavior in game hasn't changed. He'll still join a game and go AFK. Nobody wanted to get two more in order to play a 4v4 last night, so he went AFK for the entire game.

I can confirm wolvs report.. He trys to get us to show up on the server at 9 or 10 so we can have a good TG.. then he ruins it by going afk? I just dont get it..

Ya Splint, Kimp is definitely being baited, NOT. He acts up on his own behalf, not because people are forcing him to.


And Solecord can't accept the fact that he was just KIMP'd, HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA, I still find it funny.

Solecord, what happened to:

If you guys run into any problems with kimp at all, please notify an administrator or moderator. He will be dealt with at that point. He is being given a "1 strike" rule, so any f---k up and he will be dealt with immediately, going forward.

Apparently "1 strike" is a loose term.

[MasterSplinter]

What happened to spintastic, artistic arguementationalism

What? You want me to illiterate that for you? Personally, I thought "percolating asshole" was a vivid image.

[Wolv]

evry1 is scurd of kimp being #1

thaz why we all r postng

i hop he dosnt take up tha gutar LOL

[MasterSplinter]

Splint, you're the one who is delusional.





Ya Splint, Kimp is definitely being baited, NOT. He acts up on his own behalf, not because people are forcing him to.


And Solecord can't accept the fact that he was just KIMP'd, HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA, I still find it funny.

Solecord, what happened to:



Apparently "1 strike" is a loose term.

[f-7]

Why do you always need to post some stupid fucking picture or a youtube clip every time you respond to a thread?