Quake pk3s for Dummies - My quake

[inkub0]

so lets wait and ask baker for that later

[Seven]

Dear all,

I want to follow inkub0�s idea of posting Quake pk3�s here. (thats why I didnt create a new thread)

But at the same time I also want to consider the important fact, that handling different pk3�s is already too complicated for many users.

Rygel had a earth shattering idea back in 2007.
He created ONE .pk3 file with everything in it.
On top of that he created and implemented never seen normal textures that boosted the Quake playing-experience dramatically.
People use his great pack till today.

So I thought about a smart solution to bring updated contents/replacements to new users, while keeping it easy.

Until we have a installer (like mentioned in the posts above), that allows to freely pick contents of your choice, I followed basically Rygels idea.
But did one important change:
My pack is not a .pk3, it is the complete Quake folder.
So struggling with VISed water, or setting up the correct config.cfg or finding/creating the correct subfolders (to mention just a view big issues new users have) is obsolete !

You can extract this folder independent/parallel to your already existing Quake folder.
(because luckily Quake needs no Windows registry keys)

The only 2 important things to know are
1.) My Upload is designed for DarkPlaces (just like Rygels pack)
2.) Quake is NOT freeware, so I deleted:
- ID1\pak1.pak
- hipnotic\pak0.pak
- rogue\pak0.pak
(You have to copy/paste your original paks in it)

For more details read the readme.txt (link below)

I think and hope this approach is even easier than Rygels idea and will leave as little open questions as possible.

My biggest target is to bring this great game with all the beautiful enhancements to as many people as possible.

Warm regards,
Seven

[gdiddy62]

Thanks Seven, I'm downloading as I type.

[LambentHammerBurst]

Why dont create an installer executable that finds the quake1 folder and automatically installs packages? It may be come with a menu with many choices (example: QRP or RYGEL textures; new models weapons or only new skins, highpoly monsters or Reforged skins... and so on. I think that will bring Quake to more accurate user-customization!
I cant use programming languages (i'm a donkey in C#) but i think that somebody can do it. We have the material already.

I'm for this, I've actually suggested it to Baker, My-Key, Moon[Drunk] and both members of Reforged.
However my idea is slightly different and would require MANY pk3's.
It's a basic installer with a exe, ini file and a /data folder.

/Data folder would have all the content split up.
so inside it you'd have:
/grunt/
now inside there would be:
Grunt(OoPpEe-Moo).pk3 Mine/Moo Grunt
Grunt(Fragger).pk3 - Fragger's Grunt
Grunt(Reforged-H).pk3
Grunt(Reforged-U).pk3

Other folders would have similar files.
Now when ran in the program and on Grunt page you'd have 3 options (4 if we dont use suboption which I'll get into)
OoPpEe/Moo Grunt
Fraggers Grunt
Reforged Grunt (which upon selecting you get a sub selection to choose normal or high).

How it would read this:
a ini file which sorts the content.
I'm not a coder, but I've seen installers use ini for installation options.
The ini will ALSO tell the exe to delete all other forms of the same content and install the one selected (so you can't have Grunt(OoPpEe-Moo).pk3 and Grunt(Fragger).pk3 installed.

But using a ini file will allow for easy updates. Especially if we include the package with a second exe used to generate a installer which will install the pk3 to the right subfolder in ../data/
and then add mere lines to the ini - resulting in the installer having another model to install as a option.
Can also be used to update exsisting content if the pk3 is named the same and the option names are the same.

That above would allow for us to keep it alive without us actually doing so. Would allow people not involved in the project to release content which is compatible with the installer AND lets say 1ce a month we'd gather up the content released by others and release a new version of FULL install or at least create a monthly update installer and after there's many releases or a BIG release - update the full.

[inkub0]

nice! keep me informed about that!

[LambentHammerBurst]

I have next to no coding exp lol, so it's dead on my end thus far. Was a idea I thought would be great. It would be overall the same as Rygel's pack but with options. So you're not stuck with "This is it, this is what you get and only this". His pack was great but also was horrible in the sense that replacing content in it was difficult for the standard user or if something you hated in the pack was in there, tough.

Now if someone could make the basic exe - reads ini like I mentioned with it also detecting and deleting content of same type (see my Grunt(OoPpEe-Moo).pk3 and Grunt(Fragger).pk3 example).
And if given webspace (Solecord read this hint hint lol) - I would have no issues keeping the pack fully updated.

Other parts that'd need to be options is also when selecting to install a model - also allowing it to instead link to a site. Reason for this is some may want people to see their release thread. I do know Tabun - who made the Enforcer I ported does NOT want his model released in any pack - so the only way I could release it is via Linking to my thread.
Then obviously instead of just the option for installing, when you make a selection - it shows a screenshot of the content with a short description.
The last would be (and it's important) - when you make a selection to have it install MULTIPLE files. A example would be QRP's Textures. As without it my option for it would be HUGE as it'd require multiple full pk3's:
QRP Textures Low - description states it's just the diffuse textures - installed Textures(QRP-Diffuse).pk3
QRP Textures Medium - description states it's just the diffuse and bonus textures (glow, luma, gloss) - installed Textures(QRP-Diffuse).pk3 + Textures(QRP-Extras).pk3
QRP Textures Full - description states it's the above 2 options and Normal maps - installed Textures(QRP-Diffuse).pk3 + Textures(QRP-Extras).pk3 + Textures(QRP-Normalmaps).pk3

If this above option wasn't done - well figure out how much HDD space would be needed for the 3 options.

I did ask Baker about me getting a quakeone.com/ooppee/ and he forwarded it to Sole who responded. However my reply to him has yet to get a response back.


My main concern for this idea though is how "open" some may be to having their packs split up.
Like Reforged - all of their monster skins will have to be put into separate pk3
The Shader Animated Ammoboxes - again each would have to be split apart
Weapons - again same effect so you can mix-match weapon packs.

[Bloodbat]

I'm a bit sleepy right now...but here's a couple of cents:
-PK3 files are simple .zip files, so separating or adding stuff isn't all that hard
-An NSIS script (or Inno or something similar) could be created that uses all those resources and lets you select what you want, without the need for that much additional web space: you get the separate packages, run the script and let it do it's magic.
-With some fidgeting, packs could be created in real time, being .zip files and all. (zlib comes to mind)

[LambentHammerBurst]

*hears a woosh over his head*

Yeah the pk3 part is easy. Splitting the Reforged, QRP and other packs is a simple couple hour job (have to test them each individually after repacking to ensure you got all the needed files). That part is the easy part and part I have no issues doing and keeping updated.
It's the actual installer - which is actually this entire idea lol - that I can't do. I have a idea as to how I'd like it as it makes it easy for even noobs to make their custom content compatible with the installer (a tool to make a exe installer which adds in the stuff to the ini automatically).

The idea of the webspace would be great as then a full installer wouldn't be needed. Although the full installer idea I lean a bit more towards as if webhosting gets shut down - mirroring the files would require a whole edit of the exe itself (as it'd search the dead website). The full installer would allow people to mirror the installer and make is spread much easier as one wouldn't need the original website to get all the content options.

[Mancubus]

Let me express my opinion. I believe that we should avoid any installers. Or simply use the ones widely used archivers (like 7-zip) include. I'd like to be able to open the pack with a simple archiver instead of installing it. I'd even prefer a simple zip or 7-zip archive containing the pack.

[LambentHammerBurst]

Agree'd on that. However we do have a crowd which has difficulty even putting pk3's in the right folder and ALSO have the issue of mixing content which results in horrible results - Baker has suggested a fix via md5. This idea would "fix" that issue by having it install the content and remove the matching content. Although would only work on pk3's listed within the program.
This isn't to remove the current way of things (downloading a zip file and putting the pk3 in the right folder). Won't replace that at all. This is just more of a idea to make a "All in one" installer. So you have a entire collection of items which you can easily install/uninstall. Would make it easy for the "noobs".
Overall this program idea would have pk3's in a folder and it just copies them to the Quake folder based upon your selection. It's more for a users convience. Lets say they want to use Reforged's monsters but want Fragger's Chthon and Grunt. Simply putting the pk3 in their quake folder wouldn't work - they'd get one or the other. Now for them to fix this - they'd have to open the pk3 and delete various files in each pk3. Now this would fix that issue for them as all the content would be split up - doing the work for them. They can choose Reforged's Knight and Hellknight, keep id1's Dog, have Fraggers Chthon and Shub and have my/Tabun and my/Moo's Grunt and have that installed so simply - no having to manually delete files in pk3's. The program would install them all for you easily.

Would also help users with errors. Like myself I use Reforged's skin for monsters which I haven't replaced. I use their highest quality version - however I have to step down Chthon's quality down one. Now there isn't a installer for this - not a option. With this idea would can. Again split the pack up and when you come to the installer you can choose High or Ultra for each monster. So if you are having issues with on e1m1, e2m1, e3m1 and e4m1 due the high amount of Grunts on Ultra - you could have the Grunt be high while keeping all the other monsters on Ultra. Or like myself have all the monsters on Ultra - but Chthon on High.
Could the average user do this or a user JUST trying to get into Quake after many years? Not at all. This could help revive Quake also as it would make it simple. I'm sure there's been hundreds of people who wanted to give Darkplaces a try to get back into Quake - but due to them not being able to get the content they've seen working or even finding them (as content is spread all over the internet - not all here) they gave up.

[gdiddy62]

Is there a chance we could see this implemented by the talented coders of this forum in a tolerable time-frame? Everybody that has that kind of talent seems to be working on many other projects. I'd love this option, although I'm slowly working my way out of "noob" status..I think..LOL. I think it is a great idea, but wonder about the "realities".

[LambentHammerBurst]

The real issue IMO isn't coders - we have many here who could actually code this idea overnight. The real issue I see is actually webspace - this would be HUGE in file size (likely around 1.5gb). Getting a webhost to host that is easy - getting a webhost which would host it while not limiting downloads and being free - that's the harder part.

[Mancubus]

Easy solutions are around. There are number of file hostings that provide that much space. Also, the torrents will help.

Regarding noobs - I don't think that unzipping the pack in the right place is more complicated than installing it there

[inkub0]

the complicated thing is to "merge" a coerent PK3 file XD

[Bloodbat]

I'd say that's more an issue of patience...and keeping a good list of what goes with what and where.