Tzunami: GPL Quake Client Development

[d1554573r]

What I would probably do if I wanted a multiplayer-only GPL quake-alike:

Include only DM1-6 and maybe e1m2 (GPL sources)

Use flat shaded textures like people in Quakeworld do anyway and go for a comicky look similar to Warsow, possibly using cel-shading (why get hung up on recreating textures, DM6's textures for example are totally generic anyway, and a lot of people won't care for this at all)

Use tenshihan's sound pack (GPL) from the old nexuiz project and fill up with sounds from freesound etc (creative commons). Get someone to voice act the player (RMQ will do this for example, and I might release those sounds as PD or something)

make my own bmodels for ammo boxes etc. with simple textures (pretty easy)

use some custom weapon models by Ruohis, Electro or someone like that and get the modeler's approval to license them under GPL - same for player model, if necessary use the ratamahatta, homer simpson or whatever usable models from idgames2

remove all non-multiplayer code and content (I agree with this)

After this, you have something that is playable, is a lot like Quake, except for textures and models and sounds, but the physics are the same.

The problem only comes if you want it to look and sound like Quake.

I use tenshian and freesound plus some other CC resources for sfx, actually i got most stuff ready cept for vanilla files but i keep that for an end. (dp doesnt need vanilla at all)

BTW You dont have to run the same progs.dat! You actually dont need it at all unless You want to start the game.

[R00k]

on second thought, you wouldn't even need viewmodels - world models for the weapons are enough and those could even be sprites or whatever, or taken from existing mods (GPL problem though). Recommendation: Drop any viewmodels whatsoever and make the world models yourself in a comicky style. Main remaining problem is the player model.

Finally, worry about things like logos (OMG) at the end of the project, not at the start. RemakeQuake doesn't have a logo, or a real name, to this day.

Finally finally, I have a feeling that people who want to play Quake online will warez pak1.pak and use the existing servers. There are GPL shooters already, like Nexu... Xonotic, and they aren't really hugely popular.

This is pretty much what I have going on in Qrack. Generic textures, cellshading, custom particle font, simpleitems, Moo's player model (md3), classic Arcade sounds from the 80s, replaced weapon models, custom charset, replacement /gfx/wad file, CTF mod, CAx mod etc.. Just all loosly gathered and parked on my HD. I'm probably breaking some GPL somewhere but since it's on my machine it's not a problem I think any avid Quaker out there (nQuake) has the same style setup. You wouldnt need a progs.dat if you are just wanting to make a FREE QTEST (DM only) remake. "Here's the client, here's the media, go connect to a server, PLAY!" I thought that's what nQuake was all about?

[d1554573r]

Don't worry I plan to keep it QUAKE style. Im not going to make a fancy fraggin cartoon.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Wow just a pipe thought, whoever owns the intellectual "Quake" properties now (didnt Id get bought? hah) takes note of whats cooking in d1554573r kitchen,and released their very own re-invisioned "q1 sequel".

HAH, WOW, what a good day dream. Back to reality...

[Skutarth]

You dont have to run the same progs.dat! You actually dont need it at all unless You want to start the game.

You are correct. I was mixing progs.dat up with gamex86.dll in Quake 2. Blah!

It makes no difference to my argument anyway. That means that a new progs.dat is even more pointless since game logic is handled server-side. Having a different progs.dat won't prevent model precaches of nonexistent models because the server progs.dat is what is determining it, not the player. Besides, if I recall correctly, models are only precached if they will appear in the map. If the intention is to first complete deathmatch, it shouldn't matter anyway.

[blw435]

You are correct. I was mixing progs.dat up with gamex86.dll in Quake 2. Blah!

It makes no difference to my argument anyway. That means that a new progs.dat is even more pointless since game logic is handled server-side. Having a different progs.dat won't prevent model precaches of nonexistent models because the server progs.dat is what is determining it, not the player. Besides, if I recall correctly, models are only precached if they will appear in the map. If the intention is to first complete deathmatch, it shouldn't matter anyway.

I have just done some testing, where a server requests a model which is missing on the client and the results are as follows:

Darkplaces displays an error on connecting, but replaces the missing model with a multi-coloured diamond.

Plain old Winquake displays an error, attempts to connect but will not do anything further at all.

Proquake does the same as above, then attempts to download via HTTP and fails.

It should be noted that MOST of the models, sounds etc are precached in the source regardless as to whether they exist on the level or not - this will give a user who connects to a POQ server an error - perception that the game is problematic.

As for deviding the community, I wish it were instantly possible for that not to be the case, but ultimately, unless you're going to replace every single model, texture, sound, sprite etc before releasing (very long wait) then you need to do something to enable you to produce a good quality product, which people will want to play again, with relative ease.

You've got to remember, if someone playing Tzunami for the first time, connects to their favourite Quake server (Runequake for example) and all they see is a level full of rainbow diamonds, they're hardly going to come back for a second look, are they?

As for your point of being/not being Multiplayer only, unless i've totally imagined it, I'm sure d1554573r stated that was his initial aim, which I certainly believe would be a good place to start, with the rest coming later as a potential second release.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

It need not be more complicated than MAKE DM3 GPL COMPLIANT,you can count on myself being a DM3 cronie along with a ton of other newbs that enforce a DM3 only policy 99% of the time. Thats one map to begin attempting to attract a playerbase. Which,obv consists of CRMOD/CA players.

RuneQuake,as you said,utilizes way to much diverse content(bad for quick results). Start with DM3 specifically,it already gets plenty of playtime and is a staple in Q1 whether you will admit it or not.Forget custom maps,only the classic DM levels and find some server-admins that will run DM3-only servers utilizing current mods , that are open sourced.

One mans vision should be bore on the shoulders of many for the benifit of future many,only a handful of people have the comprehension of what it takes to keep Q1 a viable online option,its 2010 by all rights Q1 should have been dead long ago,and if we all as a community in our own respects,be it engine coder,server provider,or in general community member who likes shooting people in Q1,its all coming together by the assistance of many, those many will all have to be onboard. Coders of engines have to be one collective think tank, they are the only ones providing us with new content with are currently,broken in-flow of community. All current engine development for the current "Quake style content" are aimed at a extremely small group of people, US the remaining "NetQuakers".

Dm3 and the ability to cross-platform (classic quakers get what they want,classic quake)

The FREEBEE crowd get an alternative look ONLY, utilizing the same already established resources. Shit costs money,if someone plans on hosting all the new content for "game servers" out of their own specific pocket,good for them thanks for the assistance,but it still seems all the wiser to tap into an already proven sources,where the current playerbase already knows the address of the servers.

Anyone remember when trinicom went offline, and how many CTF'rs basically got shunned into NON-EXISTANCE. Your looking at the same situation if a split occurs due to one portion of the community moves while the rest sit still,and no ones more stubborn than CA'rs or DM'rs with the map DM3. GG, this should piss off some DM3 haters,but get over it DM3 isn't an option,it's vital like oxygen.

[Skutarth]

You've got to remember, if someone playing Tzunami for the first time, connects to their favourite Quake server (Runequake for example) and all they see is a level full of rainbow diamonds, they're hardly going to come back for a second look, are they?

The idea was to support all the required assets for vanilla multiplayer. RuneQuake is a mod. You still haven't pointed out why you would need a new progs.dat. It does nothing for you unless the server is running it anyway.

[blw435]

The idea was to support all the required assets for vanilla multiplayer. RuneQuake is a mod. You still haven't pointed out why you would need a new progs.dat. It does nothing for you unless the server is running it anyway.

I have explained it in my above post!

If you connected to a server which is even running just vanilla multiplayer, you would get errors if you didn't have something as simple as one of the monster models, because a standard progs.dat precaches the vast majority of the files, regardless if they're on the level or not.

That said, how many NQ servers are there out there which run completely vanilla multiplayer? I haven't got time to check, but I'd suggest nearly zero or very few - so the chances the player is going to be connecting to a server running a mod are much much greater.

[Skutarth]

I have explained it in my above post!

If you connected to a server which is even running just vanilla multiplayer, you would get errors if you didn't have something as simple as one of the monster models, because a standard progs.dat precaches the vast majority of the files, regardless if they're on the level or not.

That said, how many NQ servers are there out there which run completely vanilla multiplayer? I haven't got time to check, but I'd suggest nearly zero or very few - so the chances the player is going to be connecting to a server running a mod are much much greater.

As previously pointed out by d1554573r, if you're connecting to a server (and not hosting one), your progs.dat is completely 100% worthless on client side. Like he said, you can even delete the damn thing from your pak files. If you try to start a game yourself, it will close the game with an error, but you are able to connect to a server just fine.

You are correct when you say that, if you don't have a placeholder or special case in the code to prevent it, a missing model will cause an error when a precache is attempted. Unless that progs.dat is being run on the server, it makes no difference. The server determines what you're going to precache.

I also have no idea how you think it benefits your case by pointing out that many servers run mods. That means the players will still end up with missing assets that the server's progs.dat will try to precache anyway. What the hell is the point you're trying to make? Your modified progs are completely worthless unless you intend to get all the people running vanilla servers to switch to it.

[R00k]

What he is referring to is that in the quakeC code, in world.qc in the main() function there are a bunch of precache_file functions. No need to get confused about this or upset about concurrent postings about this as its just a simple misunderstanding.
The precache_file function is different than the precache_model and precache_sound commands.

void PF_precache_file (void)
{	// precache_file is only used to copy files with qcc, it does nothing
	G_INT(OFS_RETURN) = G_INT(OFS_PARM0);
}

But, if the progs.dat on the server calls a precache_model of a file thats contained in pak1 and tzunami doesnt supply an alternate file for that then there will be conflicts. Case in point, on a CTF server you'll get an error if you dont have the hook model installed.

[d1554573r]

My favorite game studio bought them

[blw435]

As previously pointed out by d1554573r, if you're connecting to a server (and not hosting one), your progs.dat is completely 100% worthless on client side. Like he said, you can even delete the damn thing from your pak files. If you try to start a game yourself, it will close the game with an error, but you are able to connect to a server just fine.

You are correct when you say that, if you don't have a placeholder or special case in the code to prevent it, a missing model will cause an error when a precache is attempted. Unless that progs.dat is being run on the server, it makes no difference. The server determines what you're going to precache.

I also have no idea how you think it benefits your case by pointing out that many servers run mods. That means the players will still end up with missing assets that the server's progs.dat will try to precache anyway. What the hell is the point you're trying to make? Your modified progs are completely worthless unless you intend to get all the people running vanilla servers to switch to it.

I've no Idea why you're arguing with what I'm pointing out as;

- I have never suggested Tzunami SHOULD or WILL have a custom progs.dat, i've merely indicated it is an option that COULD be explored to counter problems which WILL be encountered, and to release a full robust package.

- My experimentation with removing the monster code was to see if it was easy to remove, as has been pointed out, Tzunami will be Multiplayer angled so it would be advantagous to know if it could be easily done (Quake performs better, the smaller the progs.dat is)

- This isn't mine, or your project, so why don't we both just STFU and wait for d1554573r to post saying which direction he wants to go with what.

- One final thing, are you Urdead? Because you sound like him!

[Spirit]

(Quake performs better, the smaller the progs.dat is)

The size of progs.dat has no influence on any performance whatsoever.

[d1554573r]

About customized progs.dat, there's only one way to see if it has any use...
TEST IT.