Tzunami: GPL Quake Client Development

[d1554573r]

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I had maxed out dp settings

[golden_boy]

The one thing that Quake desperately needs and USED TO have years ago, is deep creativity.

Deep creativity can be the spark that --- combined with old school thinking of what really makes great gameplay (and social interaction elements) --- re-ingites the "forgotten future" I sometimes refer to.

["The forgotten future" -- a rich and creative modding-centric utopia that is kind of a gaming Renaissance that everyone thought was going to be the future in mid-1990s --- but it wasn't.]

I think there is a lot of deeply creative modding and game making going on in the world, it just doesn't involve Quake for the most part. Quake is simply technically lacking, some tools are obscure, info is scattered, and it is niche.

Old-school thinking of what makes great gameplay... personally, I think some new school thinking would make Quake better, not worse. The incredibly conservative attitude of most of its remaining content creators (and players!) is a main problem, as is the fact that many come for example here just to talk shit which makes this a noisy place.

It isn't the most friendly environment for creative people, and it isn't the most promising starting point for making a cool mod, technically. What do you think why all those re-model, re-skin and re-texture projects that failed in the past have failed. They shouldn't even be necessary - it's an added burden that the game is ancient and any feature you need has to be painfully added before you can start making actual content. The creative environment isn't ideal. The facts prove it.

[luizera]

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I had maxed out dp settings

Nice start! Lacks some variety thou...

Talking about HUD bars, ezQuake 2.1 will (apparently) support them. Take a look:

QuakeWorld.nu Forum / What does your qw look like?

Would be nice to have something like Street Fighters helath bars . Justo wondering...

[d1554573r]

Lacks some variety thou...

I know, im considering remaping textures in map editor and adding more variety. But i guess my theme, different from id still gives quake feeling. Thats my goal.

[Baker]

If you make png or psd versions of a fancy new age HUD, I'll immediately do the engine coding and provide an engine tutorial for support of it the new HUD @ Inside3d.com including a tutorial that can be used on DarkPlaces and provide a modded DarkPlaces supporting your HUD.

Really and I mean this from experience, delving into map retexturing is a BAD idea. I could list 50 reasons, but one of the best works like this: there are tons of Quake mappers, Quake has never had a shortage of them.

If progress were made on the sounds, the models and the HUD ... it would be a motivator to organize a small army or competition to do the maps. But focusing on the maps is like having an empty bag. With a full set of the rest of the stuff, all you need is 1 map. But 40 maps with no good sounds or a HUD is really the present state of things. There are some GPL maps out there, even a few decent ones. Tyrann's aggressr is a prime example, which happens to be in both Open Arena and Nexuiz.

[d1554573r]

I'll get into HUD'ing during the weekend.

True, theres no point to do too much stuff at the same time more potential users = more potential devs...

Anybody would like to link some "TOP" gpl-ed maps to include in tzu?

[Baker]

Func_Msgboard: List Of Maps With GPL Sources Available - Quite a few great ones ... they would need retextured. Vondur's DM maps come to mind.

If you give me some time to wrap up the things I'm presently doing, I *may* be able to give you the ability to retexture a map in real time.

I'd have to do some research and do some asking at Inside3D.com, but I think this capability is totally doable.

I'd have to prototype it.

The short version of the mechanics ... determine the surface the crosshair is on. Take from the clipboard either the DIB image or a file name, Quake uploads the texture to the video card and add a command to save what you've done to a text file. Maybe some way to figure out the brush # in the map to make it easier to re-integrate into a map source.

But other reasons that map retexturing should be lowest priority:

#1 You would want a replacement texture set as the basis, not low resolution images. But you cannot compile a map with low resolution images.

#2 The retexturing should be limited to the use of a specific texture set, with a limited number of textures. Otherwise you have the Nexuiz or Open Arena problem where the download is 300 MB.

More on this later but arguably there are maybe 4 rather good fully GPL Quake maps ... at least as placeholders (anything can always be improved).

DM3



DM6



http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=2077

And maybe possibly a few from leilellol's work:



http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=2344

[d1554573r]

Tbh, im not happy with the idea of retexturising entire game...

There's a little problem regarding id stuff, we can make dummy files so engine wount dl/ models and sounds --- but what if certain (community) map downloaded from server contains original textures?

On the other hand they said its fine with them if we exclude all id non-gpled files from client and client wont d/l any id files. I guess it's bad for us if it does... But on the other hand we cant take responsibility for server maps. It can run dm2 renamed to dm2a and client will download it any way after all.

I'll retexture dm 1-6 maps and some best picks from community and include them into client package.

If you give me some time to wrap up the things I'm presently doing, I *may* be able to give you the ability to retexture a map in real time.

... ... ... WOW?

EDIT:
About maps i would need top-30 maps played these days, i'll try to contact their authors perhaps they would gpl them if I kindly ask

[Baker]

Tbh, im not happy with the idea of retexturising entire game...

There's a little problem regarding id stuff, we can make dummy files so engine wount dl/ models and sounds --- but what if certain (community) map downloaded from server contains original textures?

On the other hand they said its fine with them if we exclude all id non-gpled files from client and client wont d/l any id files. I guess it's bad for us if it does... But on the other hand we cant take responsibility for server maps. It can run dm2 renamed to dm2a and client will download it any way after all.

I'll retexture dm 1-6 maps and some best picks from community and include them into client package.



... ... ... WOW?

EDIT:
About maps i would need top-30 maps played these days, i'll try to contact their authors perhaps they would gpl them if I kindly ask

True but again,

"Really and I mean this from experience, delving into map retexturing is a BAD idea. I could list 50 reasons ..."

If you shift your focus to maps, you'll fall into a black hole you can never come out of. Quake maps are easy as hell to make, that's why there are 5000 of them or more.

Maps have never been a problem ... not even from a GPL standpoint.

But what has really been a problem is a high quality console, HUD, sounds, model set etc. that looks good together and feels right in game.

If those things fall in place, maps will fall in place.

If those things aren't in place, no number of maps can ever fill the void that of an uncohesive experience.

If you can do even a HUD, console background and menu replacement elements ... you will make a large dent in the problem.

As far as server stuff, you can't control what server adminstrators do. The reality is that this kind of thing would need it's own server browser. There could be some overlap with the existing Quake server population ... but this would, for example, never be able to do online cooperative single player obviously.

About maps i would need top-30 maps played these days, i'll try to contact their authors perhaps they would gpl them if I kindly ask

dm3, dm2, dm4, dm6, aerowalk, e1m7, e1m2 (supposedly), start.

But there are several good DM maps in that GPL map thread. Like deathmatch maps made by Jago. One made by Lunaran (Orange Whip). dfsp_spirit has one. And like I said, there are Tyrann and Vondur dm maps. Probably several more.

[Baker]

Some of just a few GPL DM maps:

http://wp.vondur.net/map_pics/lilith.jpg

http://wp.vondur.net/map_pics/zed02.jpg

http://wp.vondur.net/map_pics/zed.jpg

http://wp.vondur.net/map_pics/ferrum.jpg

http://lunaran.com/images/maps/lundm1_1.jpg

All of Tyranns:

Zero Credibility Uzuldaroum

I can't find easy screenshots of the others. The maps would need to be retextured because the Quake textures aren't GPL.

You wouldn't be able to generally contact any popular Quake deathmatch map makers. The email addresses in the readme files would be 10 years old or have invalid PlanetQuake email addresses since PlanetQuake dumped Quake hosting.

[d1554573r]

Since You've been there and done this before i'll take Your word for this

Those maps You mentioned should do the trick I guess.

About console and background, I guess we need few versions to fit differnt resolutions same goes for charset. I'll start it right now.



This is how my console looks right now but i bet You want something innovative, and i got an idea for this ne...

[dfsp_spirit]

Feel free to use spirit1dm2 if you want it, it's my map that Baker mentioned. It's of course NOT a top30 map (I guess maybe 30 people have played it so far, haha). Map file is in the zip of the normal download.

[R00k]

Hud

I think an interesting idea for a hud might come in the form of something like a wrist watch. Okay now before the eyes start to roll, Imagine the HUD is the arm across the screen and the display is like a miniature smartphone. It clearly is not a vector readout displayed on a helmet visor.
I think HUD's in modern games have become just an overlay with no connection with the game except the actual data it presents.
Weapon ammo that is printed on the gun is a good example of the idea im trying to illustrate.

on a side note, I actually bought one of those 3d card models of the Quake marine from heritage models (www.heritage-models.co.uk), and looking at the actual texture on the model, which was provided by id software, it's concept art quality, cartoon-ish style. Not some photo-realistic image. So, i've always had this b-rated movie notion of Quake art...

[metchsteekle]

it also has a b-movie story line, almost a one liner

[gnounc]

Wristwatch...like in goldeneye!

I like the idea.