NewDM: A new look at Quake Deathmatch

[LordHavoc]

ok something weird happend.. both jackhammer, cortex and me got disconnected at the same time.. just as c4lbert was connecting to the server.. i think all of us are on qrack..

I believe this is the same 'disconnect on map change' bug, it may be qrack specific but I doubt that. I haven't found any differences in the network code between DP and stock quake for entities, so I'm bewildered by this, the server is sending something that qrack doesn't parse, but what? I know that it is the first player entity, but the only things I can imagine are an invalid modelindex (which would affect all clients), invalid colormap index (ditto), invalid skin index (if this kicks qrack clients then it's technically a qrack bug - and it should report an error then), I'm out of ideas.

I checked the qrack code also and it's the same as stock quake for the most part, no changes there that should break on this.

Qrack does however have the deprecated 'QSG protocol' extensions which were created for Nehahra, used in the Nehahra movie, and not used in the actual Nehahra game, Nehahra switched to DarkPlaces protocol extensions before release, so multiplayer Nehahra uses DP protocol, and the Nehahra demos use the QSG protocol, the main problem with this is that Qrack would not be able to play on QMB, TomazQuake, or DP servers that are using the sv_protocolname QUAKEDP protocol if the mod uses alpha and other features that require protocol extensions.

QUAKEDP protocol is designed as a simple set of features that are easily implemented in other engines, it is a standard upgrade of the QUAKE network protocol, so it would be good if all engines supported it, as whitehot could make use of a few extra features then, although obviously unmaintained engines such as ProQuake would not be able to play then.

That said, the DP7 protocol is pretty easy to support too, which has other benefits (lower bandwidth, all darkplaces effects working, etc).

[=peg=]

i think it has to do with me having cl_autodemo on.. that is.. i set it to 0 and stoped the current recording.. then on map change i did NOT disconnect

[LordHavoc]

i think it has to do with me having cl_autodemo on.. that is.. i set it to 0 and stoped the current recording.. then on map change i did NOT disconnect

That's a huge clue actually, it seems that qrack begins recording at the very moment it parses the first entity message, which is the point where it is having a parse error, perhaps something is going wrong in the record command?

[=peg=]

there must be something there, couse i did NOT have any trouble staying connected on mapchange after i stopped recording.. survived at least 3 mapchanges

[drez0r]

Sorry i havent read through all this, but why are there no paks when people die?

[foq]

Hey CDN, since you are going to reduce rocket ammo even further, I vote for making rockets 1.5x more powerful.

[PapaSmurf]

Sorry i havent read through all this, but why are there no paks when people die?

I don't know, it's stupid. There's no reward for killing someone. How rewarding is it to kill someone who has RL, and you've got SSG or SNG; it's kind of nice. What's funny, is the longer you go without dieing, the more ammo starved you are. We just played e4m5, the Palace of Hate, and I did not have any rockets the entire game, I just used shaft. Shaft was already more powerful than the RL, and now it's even more so, it's not even funny.

[=peg=]

i got disconnected a few more times midgame.. not recording a demo.. but here are the details:

------------------
  0:svc_updatestat
  6:svc_updatestat
 12:svc_updatestat
 17:END OF MESSAGE
Read error

===========================
Host_Error: CL_ReadFromServer: lost server connection
===========================

hope this helps..

[Baker]

Things I've noticed which might provide clues to the disconnect problem(s):

1. If I use cl_autodemo 1 in "my" ProQuake 3.70, it crashed on map change with cl_autodemo 1. The code is very similar to Qrack. I don't know why it would crash instead of just disconnect like what seems to happen with Qrack.

2. A lot of maps, I get "TOTAL CHANNELS == MAX CHANNELS" on the start of the map. I want to add that DarkPlaces has a sound default radius of 2000, but ProQuake/DOS Quake only use 1500. Could this be overloading the engine when it tries to start recording demos?

Also, does DarkPlaces server in the Quake protocol and -dedicated is used, does it observe the standard Quake limits for sounds and entities? With ProQuake server, sometimes when the map is hot and heavy with entities like in Rune Quake on E1M7 and 16 players, the sound cuts off for a few seconds because too much is going on.

Maybe DarkPlaces is overloading the standard Quake clients?

3. Additionally, on the Pain Maze, about 3 or 4 times in a row, when a ton of players were in the water area near the pent, every time someone discharged in the water, 3 or 4 players got disconnected. This happened every time in someone discharged the LG in the water which also kills opponents.

In my head, I'm trying to figure out what the special thing is that occurs with a discharge that would do this. Does discharge create a lot of sounds? Or is it something about the Pain Maze riding close to a limit or something else.

A discharge in the water and deaths in the water create a lot of bubbles don't they??

Could the "lot of bubbles" be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

[QuadRaptor]

3. Additionally, on the Pain Maze, about 3 or 4 times in a row, when a ton of players were in the water area near the pent, every time someone discharged in the water, 3 or 4 players got disconnected. This happened every time in someone discharged the LG in the water which also kills opponents.

In my head, I'm trying to figure out what the special thing is that occurs with a discharge that would do this. Does discharge create a lot of sounds? Or is it something about the Pain Maze riding close to a limit or something else.

There's a screenshot of when that happened. I actually don't see anything about a lg discharge though.



That was everything from when I came in.

[Baker]

This seems like a maxedicts/packet overflow issue. The Quake default is 600, which is what "my" ProQuake 3.70 uses which might be why it crashed vs. Qrack uses a higher limit of 2400 (I think) but I know Qrack/JoeQuake choke on maps with packet overflow and gracefully (sort of gracefully) exit.

/This is a guess, of course but it seems to make sense.

[Canadian*Sniper]

@Baker - Strange. I didn't change anything to do with the LG discharging. Perhaps the LG reload time is too fast for that? sys_ticrate 0.0333 *update: LH says that's not possible*

@PapaSmurf - Sounds to me that there are enough people that want the backpack drop for me to do something about it. I will do one or two things:
1) victims drop weapons instead of their backpack (anyone can pick it up regardless if they have the weapon already or not.)
2) I'll create a backpack powerup. If you pick this item up, all your victims will drop backpacks like vanilla quake. This powerup stays with you until death.

@Hat - FUCK NO jk. I don't think anyone wants a stronger RL though. The RL is still the king over SSG and SNG but the only advantage those other two weapons would have is ammo count. If this doesn't work I will increase the ammo box amounts.

[LordHavoc]

  0:svc_updatestat
  6:svc_updatestat
 12:svc_updatestat
 17:END OF MESSAGE

svc_updatestat takes up 6 bytes and that says it was truncated one byte short, very weird, none of the netcode in DP can produce that as far as I can tell. (svc_updatestat is two bytes and then a long, which is 6 bytes)

[Canadian*Sniper]

I had a small chat with Papasmurf and he made some valid points about map size and the fact that there's only 1 rl in some maps. I will add weapon drop and the backpack powerup into the mod and see how that works.

I'm also adding ricochet nails to the 2nd item list.

[LordHavoc]

2. A lot of maps, I get "TOTAL CHANNELS == MAX CHANNELS" on the start of the map. I want to add that DarkPlaces has a sound default radius of 2000, but ProQuake/DOS Quake only use 1500. Could this be overloading the engine when it tries to start recording demos?

The server doesn't even understand what a sound is, all sound radius, channels, etc are clientside things, the server simply sends the sound events and the client deals with them, there is no change here.

Also, does DarkPlaces server in the Quake protocol and -dedicated is used, does it observe the standard Quake limits for sounds and entities? With ProQuake server, sometimes when the map is hot and heavy with entities like in Rune Quake on E1M7 and 16 players, the sound cuts off for a few seconds because too much is going on.

Maybe DarkPlaces is overloading the standard Quake clients?

Again sound is purely a clientside thing, there is no difference.

But you are right about entity limits, fixed.

Could the "lot of bubbles" be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

Possibly.