Doug caught aimbotting on speaknow. Discuss.

[Doug`]

omg plz reply omi lol

I'm gonna say this once and only once, I DON'T BOT. But thanks for accusing me because, if I play as good as a bot, i'm flattered, ty to all who think i'm a bot. It made my day.

Thanks for taking IP offline baker. evern though you're an omi believer who which is one known for botting and there's been numarous conversations about Omi botting, it's sad that someone like him is accusing someone like me of botting, I dont even have a clue how to bot, no idea what you're talking about default port of a bot server is... lol. it took me an hour to figure out how to post a demo at challenge-tv, i dont care if i sound stupid with computers cuz i am, i absolutely incapable of botting; therefore Omi, your accusations are incredibly HILARIOUS, but again, thanks, made my day. I'M SO GOOD I LOOK LIKE A BOT WHEN I PLAY. LOL!!!

[omix2]

Was all the botting done before you started recording? Because I didn't see anything that would suggest a bot was being used.

The admins need to see the demo, and ban him, end of story. The evidence is plain as day. If you don't see it you probably haven't used an aimbot before.

[PRINCE_ALI]

The admins need to see the demo, and ban him, end of story. The evidence is plain as day. If you don't see it you probably haven't used an aimbot before.

Although it's probably been 8 or so years since I've played around with a bot , I've had to play against plenty since then. I'll watch the demo a third time , but I doubt I'll see anything suspicious.

Oh , and if anyone thinks I'm a friend of Doug's sticking up for him , that isn't the case. He's pretty much a douche bag

[PapaSmurf]

that's not very conclusive evidence. It's hard to tell. Omi, did you check out his efficiency numbers? That would be nice to see, his LG eff.

[Baker]

We need to get to the point where the servers protect against this.

Imagine this scenario:

1. Most clients connect in way that is effectively what ProQuake cheat-free does where client and server talk and figure out if the client is legit and if the data is legit. ProQuake and Qrack could be setup to this within weeks.

2. Allow people not using those clients to connect, anyway. There are some people who may prefer something else (DarkPlaces) or can't do cheat-free for one reason or another (Dreadful uses a Mac).

But these #2 ppl are flagged when they connect and marked on the scoreboard.

People with bad reputations might not be welcomed if they connect and their client isn't validated and maybe would could have a situation that anyone could connect, but only whitelisted ips are allow to actually play if they aren't validated.

So you have the opposite of a ban file where, for instance, Dreadful is whitelisted in a list of ip addresses despite the fact his Quake can't be checked out because he's using a Mac and, hey, he pays for the server

This would take some to do, but I know it can done. Some parts can be done faster than others.

[omix2]

that's not very conclusive evidence. It's hard to tell. Omi, did you check out his efficiency numbers? That would be nice to see, his LG eff.

You're a fucking idiot if you think that's inconclusive. Like I said we were so busy being amazed at how obviously he was aimbotting to check any eff numbers or anything like that. I have never seen more conclusive proof of someone cheating in quake 1, ever. You have to be blind or a fellow cheater to miss it.

Seriously if you're going to be a *** and try to ask for MORE evidence then how much more obvious does it need to be? There is no way anyone is going to be outrageously aimbotting in a small community like this, and what was in the demo was indeed outrageous aimbotting. This is a rare occurrence, most people at least try to hide their cheats, this dude did not in the least and he should pay for it.

[dot]

omi tells the truth... (for once)

Lemme first state that I think omi's a bitch, always has been, so don't get any delusional ideas that I'm sticking up for him.

Nonetheless, I want to state that omi is correct and that Doug was in FACT botting. The demo is poor, should have been from Doug's eye view, but I was camming him and it was completely obvious. What you can't see from the demo are things like at water he was sitting on lower bridge and his shaft was bouncing back and forth between a person coming from yellow armor and a person coming from pent window, snapping instantly from the center of one to the center of the other and then back. Also, notice the few times it is from Doug's eye view, there is a lot of twitching. I've played Doug a lot, cam'd him a lot, he doesn't do that normally, and it obviously wasn't something he was doing on purpose. It didn't seem to be affecting his rl, his shaft mostly. I know good players too, I spend a lot of time camming people like spoon, cat, ramp, etc that have excellent shafts....and I know the difference between that and a mediocre player suddenly having perfect shaft aim.

I welcome any personal attacks on me by Doug, since as we all know, omi has done an excellent job of discrediting himself in the past, but I know that my "reputation" has not been marred by bitching at people when they kill me or falsely accusing ANYONE of botting (unless they're a friend and I'm joking).

As far as the IP address, watch the demo, it's on there, I spammed it. Flooders have at it as far as I'm concerned, he deserves. And rook, that is the correct IP, I checked my log, which goes way back and also checked my bind that I spammed and made sure it was the same address as was playing with.

Making quake more cheat-proof is great, but in the meantime, how bout some banning??? I swear admins have become such pussies these days, like they're afraid to actually admin there own server.

Lastly, as omi said, he wasn't trying to hide it. His whole MO is just pissing w/ people and trying to make them mad, makes his day if he can piss you off. (He must love when omi's on). He was blatantly botting every round and then staunchly denying it when he died. It's just a game he was playing and he ought to be punished for it.

[PapaSmurf]

I'm sorry omi, but that demo does a poor job of showing whether or not Doug was botting. I'm not saying he wasn't botting, but the only evidence we've had so far is your word, dot's word, and the other players on the server.

Now your testimony is not very convincing as you're quick to accuse others of cheating. Dot's testimony sounds convincing, but beyond that there is no other hard evidence.

[R00k]

without reading any messages past my last post (skip the drama)

I watched the demo in slow motion, you can do this in pq/qrack by using the arrow keys. My 1st verdict around RA shooting at Ring, was so quick in realtime it looked like an aimbot. Slowmotion (view blocked by player) it looks like an crap shot...Around the time of 246:02 ++ is of interest. It seems, the blue player is shafting the yellow then pops the RED locks on him perfectly, not hard to do, but then falls in water and kills both with dead aim. Sure this is possible, but kinda unlikely at 1/10th the speed that your shaft would be completely dead on the player. It is possible, i know i have made shots that even i say wtf?! but to go from 1 opponent to another dead aim fall in water and dead aim shaft both??? It REALLY looks bad.

Consequently, I really -- really want to make code not to just thwart aimboters but to make it so, "hey guys i got fuckn lucky!" really means just that! So that good players ARE good players, and not this song and dance about demos and bullshit.

[omix2]

I'm sorry omi, but that demo does a poor job of showing whether or not Doug was botting. I'm not saying he wasn't botting, but the only evidence we've had so far is your word, dot's word, and the other players on the server.

Now your testimony is not very convincing as you're quick to accuse others of cheating. Dot's testimony sounds convincing, but beyond that there is no other hard evidence.

If you know what to look for the demo is obvious, regardless of how poor it is, there are at least 3-4 instances of clear aimbotting. You can slow it down like r00k mentioned if you need to, but if you really can't consider it evidence you obviously have never used an aimbot or don't know how it works. At RA when he is heading to eyes at the very beginning, he shafts the guy in like under a 10th of a second as soon as he appears. When using an aimbot, you dont need to take the time to aim, you just shaft as soon as you see your opponent. Sign #1. Then he keeps baiting him out and without knowing his location to the left he shafts him dead on again in under half a second, without taking the time to aim at all. He locks on. Sign #2. Later at water he accidentally locks onto someone with SNG and his aim starts twitching. Sign #3. The water fight is just 100% obvious. I don't even need to point that out. Like I said if you need anything more conclusive than this you will never EVER determine anyone cheats because most people are less obvious than even this demo here. This demo is damning compared to how hard it is to prove that wallhackers cheat. Aimbotting is easily identifiable.

[Doug`]

Pathetic.

Dread your just as bad as omi in my books, to even consider banning me for what omi, again "OMI" is saying, is just pathetic. You just banned a long time quaker for absolutely no reason, only "word of mouth", that makes you a follower and not a leader, why don't you just hand the server over to Mark, because you obviously can not run a server on your own if you make your decisions based totally on other ppls opinions.

On the other hand, you have one less player on speaknow that owns you. Maybe that was part of it.

[omix2]

Dread your just as bad as omi in my books, to even consider banning me for what omi, again "OMI" is saying, is just pathetic. You just banned a long time quaker for absolutely no reason, only "word of mouth", that makes you a follower and not a leader, why don't you just hand the server over to Mark, because you obviously can not run a server on your own if you make your decisions based totally on other ppls opinions.

On the other hand, you have one less player on speaknow that owns you. Maybe that was part of it.

Just stop. You got what you deserved for cheating. End of story.

[Rampage]

Maybe in the near future [within a month], I'll add some more flexibility to ProQuake cheat-free.

Already planned: Cheat-free support for Qrack [and any other engine that wants to be included]. Combined with the anti-wallhack stuff, this would making botting virtually impossible.

However, until I can get Qrack to be able to connect, the effect of cheat-free is to really limit freedom of what ppl use to connect.

Another issue: Dreadful uses a Mac and there is no way [that can happen this year, for certain] for a Mac to be included in cheat-free. Stuff to think about.

(I don't know if LordHavoc would be interested, he's not very fond of the code ProQuake cheat-free uses).

Sorry to inform you, doug is not the only one aimbotting there.

Rambo is also aimbotting.

He toggles, 100 percent.

Yesterday I was shafting at 26-30 percent for the whole night.. and he came in the server..

For 5-6 rounds he was slow, predictable, and easy to kill.
He comes out of water the same mundane routine way and I just shaft him back in repeatedly. After 6 rounds of me killing him, he decided to turn it on, and was completely different. At one point I stated "That was complete bullshit, you're not even the same player right now" and he responded with "I turned music on".. yes, I'm sure it was "music".

His shaft was pinpoint dead on accuracy. He was doing 360 and 180 spins and hitting me with shaft with millisecond reaction time, virtually impossible moves for any person. The night before he had done this as well. I RJ'd from quad door to window stairs, he just finished killing someone and with impossible reaction time turned his body 180 and air shafted me perfectly back to the Quad door. The 180 and 360 turns give it away, you cannot snap turn shaft, its impossible, your mind needs time to assess where a certain player is before you can shaft them.

At one point, I RJ'd over the top of him to the right corner of RL/Water, and i was about to fall behind him in water (he never heard me do this, there were many rockets flying about from people in water). He got out of water onto bridge with his back turned to me, did a 360 spin with light speed timing with his shaft out the entire time and hit me dead on in the corner pinning me.

Furthermore, the difference between him earlier, and between the bot is tremendous. Whenever he was with two or more people in different areas his aim became extremely erratic, the bot didn't know which person to attack and his shaft was flying about from person to person.

In the beginning of the game when he was playing himself, he was RJ'ing around the map and trying to kill people but was getting easily killed. after the 6th straight round in which he died, he suddenly stopped RJ'ing, and was walking around DM3 with his shaft out, he didn't use a single RJ for 3 straight rounds. He was walking from one place to another with only shaft out. The bots are horrible at RL prediction so any place other than water is hard to shoot.

I have no problem making this claim, I've seen it all, I've been playing for too long not to notice. As dot said, the twitching was also evident here, I eyecammed him when he had his shaft out and his pov/weapon was shaking continuously. I also don't see how a player can go from being an RJ'er to walking around the map with one gun out, that is too much confidence for anyone.. especially on spam filled DM3.

I don't like accusing people because it does seem "newbie" and "dumbed down" but when it's the only response certain people have to beating the wall-hack, it becomes obvious.

It's funny because Doug was accused of wallhacking, and yet Basy (Rambo) got caught wall hacking many times on speaknow and rage, the anti-hack comes out, and now the new counter is botting.

[omix2]

The worst part is I knew he was walling before. Then the anti-wall comes into effect, and he can't wall anymore. Then the next time I see him after that he is on speaknow botting.

The cheating in this game is just so rampant, it just has way too many 13 year olds like this kid that think they are getting "mad props" for cheating at the game.

He's probably going to cry himself to sleep now that everyone knows he has never been legit all along after talking all of that shit, but I've already known this.


I have respect for the players who cheated before and just stopped when the antiwall came into effect. They didn't deny it or switch to aimbotting, they just cut that shit out and started playing legit.

This ****** however is the perfect example of what destroys quake.

[Rampage]

Sorry to break it to ya, those players who cheated aren't playing legit, they simply aren't playing.